miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something) - Page 148 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-11-2016, 12:34 PM   #2941
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I still have the NA; it's been sitting around in the garage waiting for funds to clear up so I can get it road/track worthy again (deferred maintenance and needing to throw a few parts at it).

I don't understand, you're unhappy with your 2016 Sport because it doesn't have XM because you decided to save like $1500. It's a creature comfort. Then you talk about trading it in on a 2017 to get the creature comfort that you want, and then plans on making it an uncomfortable road car (rollbar, springs, sticky tires, etc).

I've done the dual duty thing before with my NA back when I was finishing up school, and I have absolutely zero desire to go back to that. It's definitely fun in the moment and it is rebellious and transgressive; however, sometimes you just have to ******* get to work and it's 1am on a Tuesday. I know it's apples & oranges, but let's take a look at the Solo Nationals from last month; top of CS was a 2016 MX-5 that had a combined time of 121.472 (62.469 Day 1, 59.003 Day 2), the top of STR was an AP2 but the first 2016 MX-5 was in 3rd for a combined time of 116.004 (54.533 Day 1, 61.511 Day 2). A ~4% spread in times.

Keep in mind, I'm not calling the car 100% perfect out of the box or to throw bombs over the wall at people who like to personalize or do modifications to their cars; however, the car is sporty enough, it's loud enough, and it's comfortable enough. For Point A to Point B driving, I genuinely enjoy driving the car because it's engaging and fun (i.e. - the Miata formula), and I don't have to go through the mental checklist of things to keep in mind because it isn't a perpetual project.
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Old 10-11-2016, 02:59 PM   #2942
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Chilli, why don't you just put XM radio in your current car? You can wire it in right?

If you want a track car, you might be far better served with a car that you don't have to worry about as much. Why not just get a cheap NB?
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:39 PM   #2943
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Just dug this photo up from last year, driving around the town of Carmel after Miatas @ MRLS.

The thing I like so much about the ND is how it can serve multiple purposes, both daily driver and high performance toy. It does both with a big helping of fun factor mixed in, and without making big compromises either way - particularly with a GT model like we have. It's already very light by modern standards, no need to strip the interior out to save a few lbs. Choose your modifications wisely and you can have a car that you can drive all day long with great comfort and confidence and then drive right on to a race track and hit your apexes, then drive it right home. It's why I always go back to the Porsche analog when describing how well the ND can be set up to "do it all".

Sorry Chili, but IMO if you're trying to skimp on creature comforts in a car like the ND, you're already looking at the equation the wrong way. This isn't an NA which you need to choose one path and compromise all others in pursuit of it. Full interior, full comforts, great set of coilovers like the XIDA or Ohlins, upgraded brakes if you want to track it on the weekends. Roadstersport exhaust that sings when you want it to and quiets down when you're crusing. If you want to hang the tail out a bit every now and then on the street, stick with 7" or 8" wide wheels and a decent tire but not the race-tire-in-sheeps-clothing UHP stuff. That's where it's at.
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Old 10-11-2016, 06:54 PM   #2944
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About a month ago, I was out playing with Keith Verges in his ND. He had replaced the stock suspension and put on some sticky rubber. The car moved, it was nearly as quick as my dedicated track NA! And it was a true dual-duty car with all the comforts. Impressive.

When I pick up an ND, I plan to do as Ryan suggested.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:11 PM   #2945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I still have the NA; it's been sitting around in the garage waiting for funds to clear up so I can get it road/track worthy again (deferred maintenance and needing to throw a few parts at it).

I don't understand, you're unhappy with your 2016 Sport because it doesn't have XM because you decided to save like $1500. It's a creature comfort. Then you talk about trading it in on a 2017 to get the creature comfort that you want, and then plans on making it an uncomfortable road car (rollbar, springs, sticky tires, etc).

I've done the dual duty thing before with my NA back when I was finishing up school, and I have absolutely zero desire to go back to that. It's definitely fun in the moment and it is rebellious and transgressive; however, sometimes you just have to ******* get to work and it's 1am on a Tuesday. I know it's apples & oranges, but let's take a look at the Solo Nationals from last month; top of CS was a 2016 MX-5 that had a combined time of 121.472 (62.469 Day 1, 59.003 Day 2), the top of STR was an AP2 but the first 2016 MX-5 was in 3rd for a combined time of 116.004 (54.533 Day 1, 61.511 Day 2). A ~4% spread in times.

Keep in mind, I'm not calling the car 100% perfect out of the box or to throw bombs over the wall at people who like to personalize or do modifications to their cars; however, the car is sporty enough, it's loud enough, and it's comfortable enough. For Point A to Point B driving, I genuinely enjoy driving the car because it's engaging and fun (i.e. - the Miata formula), and I don't have to go through the mental checklist of things to keep in mind because it isn't a perpetual project.
The rollbar I want is the Blackbird street version. Then only thing it does is make me have to use two hands to raise the top, instead of one. I don't see how that compromises any streetability?

I feel the car is way too soft stock. I do not like excessive body roll. The ND definitely has excessive body roll. I went from a stock suspension NC, to an NC with lowering springs on Bilsteins, to my current ND. I felt the springs lowered the car the perfect visual amount and I enjoyed the car much more than the stock NC. So I definitely don't think just lowering springs will be a detriment to the streetability of an ND, either.

As far as sticky tires go, I am undecided on what exact tire, but I definitely want slighter wider wheels and slightly wider tires, so 17x8 6UL's and some 215/45's sound great to me. Not to mention 215/45's tend to be cheaper than 205/45's in the same tire.

For loudness, I've had 5 Miatas before the ND. 3 with stock exhaust and 2 with aftermarket. I enjoyed the ones with more exhaust note much more than the stock ones. The NC I traded in more the ND had the loudest exhaust of all my miatas, and all it was was a Mazdaspeed muffler. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Maybe my thoughts and words were all jumbled up in my previous long post, but what I was trying to get across was that I would feel comfortable removing the soft top, getting Moti's GT3 roll bar, and getting a hard top for my current Sport, but I would not do that with a Club. So to maintain a fun street car that is trackable, instead of a track car that is streetable, I would like to go with a 2017 Club and just do mild mods, like the ones mentioned above.

Last edited by Chilicharger665; 10-11-2016 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:13 PM   #2946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Chilli, why don't you just put XM radio in your current car? You can wire it in right?

If you want a track car, you might be far better served with a car that you don't have to worry about as much. Why not just get a cheap NB?
You can, but then you have to stick the XM control screen somewhere, because the stock Sport radio can't control the XM. I haven't seen the ability to do that demonstrated, anyways.

As for an NB, I already have a 2001 sitting in my garage. It hasn't run in months and I can't figure out the problem.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:28 PM   #2947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
The thing I like so much about the ND is how it can serve multiple purposes, both daily driver and high performance toy. It does both with a big helping of fun factor mixed in, and without making big compromises either way - particularly with a GT model like we have. It's already very light by modern standards, no need to strip the interior out to save a few lbs. Choose your modifications wisely and you can have a car that you can drive all day long with great comfort and confidence and then drive right on to a race track and hit your apexes, then drive it right home. It's why I always go back to the Porsche analog when describing how well the ND can be set up to "do it all".

Sorry Chili, but IMO if you're trying to skimp on creature comforts in a car like the ND, you're already looking at the equation the wrong way. This isn't an NA which you need to choose one path and compromise all others in pursuit of it. Full interior, full comforts, great set of coilovers like the XIDA or Ohlins, upgraded brakes if you want to track it on the weekends. Roadstersport exhaust that sings when you want it to and quiets down when you're crusing. If you want to hang the tail out a bit every now and then on the street, stick with 7" or 8" wide wheels and a decent tire but not the race-tire-in-sheeps-clothing UHP stuff. That's where it's at.
Your Porsche analogy is one of the big reasons I wanted to get an ND. I want a do-it-all car, because I want to go back to one car.

I am confused to where I intimated that I wanted to strip my Sport's interior out? To run a GT3 roll bar, which would only happen if I kept my Sport, you have to remove the soft top, which then means I need a hardtop from your shop. I just came from an NC that had no soft top and an OEM hardtop. I loved it.

I have thought long and hard about the GT, but I don't like leather and I would rather buy an ND with an OEM LSD this time.

I am also confused at your list of parts to make a great compromise car. I mentioned wanting your RS exhaust. I mentioned 17x8 6UL's and a decent tire. I ran 205/50/15 RE11's on my NB for over 30,000 miles and enjoyed every bit of them. Is a Hankook RS3 not equivalent to an RE11?

The only things I didn't mention were coilovers and brake upgrades. If I get a Club, I will only have money for basic modifications, so that is why the Club appeals to me. It has better shocks and an LSD. So lowering springs should be fine, since I hardly ever get a chance to go to the track, and the stock LSD is obviously better than nothing. As far as brake upgrades, I think the best bang-for-the-buck would be V8R's front 11.75" kit. It loses 7.5 pounds a corner and the rotor costs are waaay lower. That and better pads for both ends should be more than enough for trackable street Miata.

Thoughts?
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:29 PM   #2948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
About a month ago, I was out playing with Keith Verges in his ND. He had replaced the stock suspension and put on some sticky rubber. The car moved, it was nearly as quick as my dedicated track NA! And it was a true dual-duty car with all the comforts. Impressive.

When I pick up an ND, I plan to do as Ryan suggested.
Is this the Keith Verges that just passed away?

He mentioned on m.net that he was running 15-inch wheels. At this risk of triggering Emilio, did you see that?
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:42 PM   #2949
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Yes, it was about 1 week before he died. What a shock. He looked great that day.

I don't know details about the car, other than Keith told me he replaced the suspension and stiffened it quite a bit. He kept it parked at his villa, so I didn't get a good look at it.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:38 PM   #2950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
You can, but then you have to stick the XM control screen somewhere, because the stock Sport radio can't control the XM. I haven't seen the ability to do that demonstrated, anyways.
Let me preface this post by saying that:
A: Satellite Radio is bleh, and
B: Satellite Radio is also meh.
That being said,

We start with one of the most visually-offensive dashboards in automotive history:





Then we take the SiriusXM Commander Touch:





And we apply it to the incongruous, designed-by-committee interior:






Viola! Poor-quality audio and an ugly dashboard, combined into a neat, inexpensive little package.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:42 PM   #2951
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Satellite is super meh. Had it on my trip from Denver to Nebraska.

would never spend money on it. Even though it was the only thing to keep me company. I didn't see a single light for 2 hours straight.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:46 PM   #2952
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The Sport doesn't have that full screen. If you have the full screen, it can control XM. I have already seen the pictures of a guy on m.net that installed that exact controller you have pictured and I didn't like it.

Once again, I live in NM. That means vast stretches of NO FM OR CELL signal. Satellite signal is everywhere. I happen to really like electronica/techno style music and XM has two separate channels that have live shows constantly. So it works for me.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:20 PM   #2953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
The Sport doesn't have that full screen.
Fair enough. Image revised to reflect the "I'm a cheap-***" interior:



(ignore the red stitching, steering wheel controls, and everything else that sets this otherwise unremarkable interior apart from a 1972 Volkswagen Porsche 914. I'm lazy.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I have already seen the pictures of a guy on m.net that installed that exact controller you have pictured and I didn't like it.

Once again, I live in NM. That means vast stretches of NO FM OR CELL signal. Satellite signal is everywhere. I happen to really like electronica/techno style music and XM has two separate channels that have live shows constantly. So it works for me.
I get it. You live in the heart of meth country, your taste in music sucks, and you can't figure out how to use the many and varied music applications which are available on the Android / iOS / WinPhone platforms. (It's ok. For some people, Blackberry is just the right decision.)


My brain is going in two directions here...

The first is to admit that, as a guy who worked on some of the early technology which eventually became the MiRGE platform, well... it sucks. The XM / Sirius codecs were built on early 90's vintage technology to be easily mass-producible at OEM scale for inclusion in factory radios at essentially zero cost. I have literally never worked with a worse perceptual coding technique in my life, and that's saying something given that I also had a role in both the Neural Audio system (which, ironically, was also used by XM) as well as the pile of aborted monkey fetuses which is now branded HD Radio.

Ok, so not everything I've touched in my career has been gold. It happens...


The second is to just say that if you're looking for an excuse to get rid of your current ND and buy a new one, more power to you. That'll just make the prices drop a little faster so that I won't feel quite so ashamed of buying one in a few years. But if you seriously just want satellite radio, and didn't have the foresight to buy the car so equipped in the first place, well, deal with the consequences. Unless you can live with flushing $6k down the nearest toilet come next spring, you're gonna have an aftermarket thing stuck to your dashboard. Miata.net has a forum where you can commiserate about this.
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Old 10-11-2016, 10:30 PM   #2954
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A little fine tuning on the dyno today. Run info in dyno plot.
I am far from an expert with this ECU so the plot isn't perfect. The ECU has a jabillion tables it sifts through for every control parameter. A lot to learn.
Still, very happy with how it runs. The SAG loves octane. CA 91 is probably the weakest fuel you will find in the US. Tuners almost anywhere else will find more power with the same hardware.


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Old 10-12-2016, 01:34 AM   #2955
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I am confused...
Thoughts?
Chili, sorry if the way I structured that post came across as the whole thing was aimed at you. It wasn't, it was mostly just me reminiscing about the ND and fantasizing about what I'd do with my own after having played with quite a few varieties and options and parts in the GWR car.

My comment about stripping the interior of creature comforts was aimed at the decisions made by many to get a base Sport ND. Coming from most of my experience being in a GT, and then seeing the sports later, I was surprised how spartan the Sport felt due to the lack of seemingly small details and features. IMO those things make a big difference in how much you enjoy the car on a day to day basis. To me, it sounds like you're on the right track now to figuring out the car that will really twirl your propeller in the future.

Side note, the RS3 is a lot stickier than the RE11 was. Great tire, though.
Side side note, the hardtop doesn't clear the GT3 roll bar (yes, we're sad about this too).
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Old 10-12-2016, 02:07 AM   #2956
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Just chiming in but I see no reason not to buy a GT ever. The bilsteins in the brembos are both pointless. Other than the cost of it the upgrade thete is no significant weight penalty from all the kick *** amenities in the GT. Ours is a GT. It is one of our fastest track cars and it's also a lovely street car.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:10 PM   #2957
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Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
You can, but then you have to stick the XM control screen somewhere, because the stock Sport radio can't control the XM. I haven't seen the ability to do that demonstrated, anyways.

As for an NB, I already have a 2001 sitting in my garage. It hasn't run in months and I can't figure out the problem.
That sucks. Any good shops in the area around you? Have you written about the issues here or at mnet? I'm sure there's something being overlooked, but I bet that you're frustrated...
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:40 PM   #2958
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Emilio, pardon for asking, but what is "OFH"?

That dyno plot is strong. What a great platform.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:44 PM   #2959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Emilio, pardon for asking, but what is "OFH"?

That dyno plot is strong. What a great platform.
Open Flash Header, I believe..

http://www.openflashtablet.com/produ.../mazda-mx5-nc/
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:45 PM   #2960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Emilio, pardon for asking, but what is "OFH"?

That dyno plot is strong. What a great platform.
I believe the "OFH" means "Open Flash Header", but I only minimally follow all the ND development.
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