miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something) - Page 27 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 10-04-2014, 12:02 AM   #521
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Come on guys, if I wanted to read people bickering about stupid off-topic **** I'd read the m.net thread.
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:15 AM   #522
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Hmmm, what makes them Euro-peeuns so different than us that their market would get a smaller engine? Whatever they've got over there, I sure hope it doesn't catch on...
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:26 AM   #523
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Originally Posted by thenuge26 View Post
Come on guys, if I wanted to read people bickering about stupid off-topic **** I'd read the m.net thread.
But we're not bickering. We're making smart *** comments and entertaining ourselves given the lack of real ND news. That's the mt way.

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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Hmmm, what makes them Euro-peeuns so different than us that their market would get a smaller engine? Whatever they've got over there, I sure hope it doesn't catch on...
Much more expensive petrol (apparently, they don't have gasoline).

More powerful Green political movement.

Punitive taxes on engine sizes that exceed 1.6L.

Other than that . . . .
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:33 AM   #524
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
Just when we think Americans have no knowledge of or interest in what goes on north of their border...

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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
But we're not bickering. We're making smart *** comments and entertaining ourselves given the lack of real ND news. That's the mt way.
What he said.
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Old 10-04-2014, 02:13 AM   #525
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Originally Posted by yenadar View Post
I took a dyno chart from a 155hp/150tq 2.0L SkyActive engine, converted it to Excel, and then manual played with the torque curve to shift it 600rpm higher in the rev range. I did this because a higher redline really suggests that Mazda would use more appropriately tuned intake and exhaust dimensions to support that extra RPM, and possibly cam differences.

It produces a pretty compelling number at ~154whp, which is about 170hp at the crank with the Mazda3's drivetrain losses. The ND's losses will be higher due to RWD vs FWD, driveshaft and all, but it should still make at least the 167hp mark of the NC if the 600rpm northward torque shift is anywhere close to accurate. If I underestimate the torque curve shift, it could easily climb up another 5-10hp.

My issue is that while the NA/NB engines are basically Briggs & Stratton technology, that's what we love about them; they can actually be tweaked and updated. I've worked on MZR direct injection engines and it ain't the same animal. The SkyActiv architecture is commendable--especially since they've decided to buck the "one size fits most" strategy of the rest of the industry. But I wonder how the car will react to pistons that don't have that funky divot in the middle, or if DIYAutotune/AEM et al will be able to offer a real product for a direct injection engine. Will it all go back to piggyback systems?
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Old 10-04-2014, 06:22 AM   #526
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Will it all go back to piggyback systems?
Hopefully EcuTec or similar will support it in the end, but it will most probably not be as wild as the opportunities on the Brigg&Pratton.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:26 PM   #527
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Someone on mnet is claiming to have been in a focus group session:

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I just came back from automotive survey featuring 2 ND miatas, one with soft top right hand drive like the one we saw in Monterey. One with targa/power retractable hardtop concept. They are being comparing against Audi TT, BMW Z4, Toyota FRS and Mini copper convertible.

The final number for miata is 155hp with 148ft/lbs and 2300lbs for soft top and 2400lbs for retractable hardtop concept. Retractable hard top / targa has panorama roof like the SLK.

The interior of the new ND feel smaller than my current NC. The door is higher or the seat is lower than current NC. Six speed manual is standard with keyless start stop. Navigation is on the Japanese model but doesn't know if American model have the navigation option. The navigation display is the Same as the new Mazda 3.

Soft top starting price in 30,495 and retractable hardtop/targa is 32,985
The 155hp, 30.5k sticker, and the fact that it was posted at 1:30am Pacific makes me thing that someone just got drunk and was ******* around, but who knows?
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:28 PM   #528
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If base price is over $30k it'll probably be DOA. It'll sell in S2k numbers at most.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:30 PM   #529
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Yikes. People compare hp and price when they shop for cars. 155hp at 30k sounds awful.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:32 PM   #530
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Yikes. People compare hp and price when they shop for cars. 155hp at 30k sounds awful.
More than double your hp at the same price with a mustang.
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:45 PM   #531
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I'm taking it with a grain of salt because it's a random dude off of mnet that isn't Mark Booth.
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Old 10-05-2014, 02:46 PM   #532
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If the above is to be believed

ND ~ 155hp/148ft-lbs ~ 2300lbs ~ $30,000

And they are comparing it to...

Cooper S Convertible ~ 181hp/177ft-lbs ~2800lbs ~ $28,700
BMW Z4 sDrive28i ~240hp/260ft-lbs ~3300lbs~ $48,950
Scion FRS ~ 200hp/151ft-lbs ~ 2758lbs ~ $25,470
Audi TT ~ 211hp/258ft-lbs ~ 3340lbs ~ $43,350

(These are "starting at" MSRP prices and specs from the manufacturers websites for current models, so I assume 2015 at this point in the year)

I did some meaningless quickie back of the napkin calculations...

Dollars per HP:
ND - $193.5/hp
CS - $158.6/hp
Z4 - $203.9/hp
FRS - $127.3/hp
TT - $205.4/hp

Power to weight (hp/lbs):
ND - 0.067
CS - 0.065
Z4 - 0.073
FRS - 0.073
TT - 0.063

Then Mazda has a LOT of work to do
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Old 10-05-2014, 03:15 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EO2K View Post
Dollars per HP:
ND - $193.5/hp
CS - $158.6/hp
Z4 - $203.9/hp
FRS - $127.3/hp
TT - $205.4/hp

Power to weight (hp/lbs):
ND - 0.067
CS - 0.065
Z4 - 0.073
FRS - 0.073
TT - 0.063

Then Mazda has a LOT of work to do
2015 Mustang GT

Dollars per HP:
$73.56

Power to weight (hp/lbs):
0.117

Not an apples to apples comparison between these sports cars and and a heavy american sports coupe, but even still, for $32k you can have a 435 hp V8.
$30k is not a Miata price. **** is nuts.
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Old 10-05-2014, 05:04 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by cordycord View Post
Hmmm, what makes them Euro-peeuns so different than us that their market would get a smaller engine? Whatever they've got over there, I sure hope it doesn't catch on...
The fact that our tax over the car price is based primarily on the displacement of the engine and CO2
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:38 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by Filipe Dias View Post
The fact that our tax over the car price is based primarily on the displacement of the engine and CO2
Boy, that type of regulation would seem to take all the fun out of driving...or at least make it really expensive. Yep, I sure hope it doesn't catch on here.
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:02 PM   #536
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Boy, that type of regulation would seem to take all the fun out of driving...or at least make it really expensive. Yep, I sure hope it doesn't catch on here.
In the land of "There's no substitute for cubic inches!" I doubt that will ever happen.

Unfortunately Australia has traditionally preferred larger torquey engines but we're slowly moving towards smaller engine cars due to the fact that petrol is about 3-4x more expensive than in the US. Weirdly though, 4WDs are becoming extremely popular family cars?
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:24 PM   #537
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Originally Posted by Lokiel View Post
In the land of "There's no substitute for cubic inches!" I doubt that will ever happen.

Unfortunately Australia has traditionally preferred larger torquey engines but we're slowly moving towards smaller engine cars due to the fact that petrol is about 3-4x more expensive than in the US. Weirdly though, 4WDs are becoming extremely popular family cars?
3x-4x more expensive?! Crap! The kind of policies that would create expensive gasoline would really hurt low and middle income families here; the dreaded 1 percenters wouldn't have a bad time...but they don't buy Miatas.

I suppose the shaky auto industry in Detroit would really be hurt as well (big cubes and all), even if most of it is now owned by the Italians...
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:58 PM   #538
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3x-4x more expensive?! Crap!
Crap indeed. I'd like to discuss an exciting bridge-buying opportunity with you.
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:01 PM   #539
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Crap indeed. I'd like to discuss an exciting bridge-buying opportunity with you.
Bridge? Who cares about a bridge when we have HIGH SPEED RAIL DUDE!!!! Yes, three times the cost and half the estimated passengers and speed, but I TRUST THE GOVERNMENT! Don't you?
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:52 PM   #540
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Like it or not....agree with it or not...government regulations have a direct correlation to what we end up driving. It's not that I advocate bringing back unrestricted two stroke engines for cars, but this stupid government crap does have a bearing on what type of engine will end up in the ND.

By the negative props being given out, apparently some people don't want to even admit this. And they certainly don't want opposing viewpoints.
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