NA-NC compatability info
05-01-2009, 10:58 AM
#1
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NA-NC compatability info
I've been searching both here and at m.net about which parts may be compatible between NAs and NCs. A local guy has a Japanese early NA track car and he just bought a totaled 2006 to use some parts. He's thinking about using the 6 speed trans and the engine. He will also most probably use the brake discs if he can.
My question is:
Is there any place where I can find which other parts may be compatible?
Do any of you have additional info on the subject?
We were talking and based on a recommendation Patsmx5 made to me a while back I was telling him to get a 99/00 head instead of the one from the 2006.
He's racing against Hondas and he's also looking for cams to put in. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
My question is:
Is there any place where I can find which other parts may be compatible?
Do any of you have additional info on the subject?
We were talking and based on a recommendation Patsmx5 made to me a while back I was telling him to get a 99/00 head instead of the one from the 2006.
He's racing against Hondas and he's also looking for cams to put in. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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05-01-2009, 11:27 AM
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In terms of parts that are bolt-in compatible, my understanding is that the side-marker lights from the NC are a direct interchange with those on the Euro-spec NA/NB.
And that's it.
The engines and transmissions are from completely different families and there is roughly zero interchange between them. The NC uses an MZR series engine, which is bigger, flows in the opposite direction, has a different bellhousing, different mounting points, different bore spacing, etc. It's likely that the oil drain plug might interchange between them, but certainly not something like a cylinder head. You could probably drop a complete NC engine/transmission combo into an NA or NB if you have access to a welder, a grinder, some basic metal-fabricating tools, and the ability to fabricate a custom driveshaft, but there's no way that one is just going to bolt in.
Likewise, the brake and suspension components are completely different. Swapping NC brake or suspension parts into an NA would be no easier than swapping Chevrolet or Mercedes brake and suspension parts into an NA.
And that's it.
The engines and transmissions are from completely different families and there is roughly zero interchange between them. The NC uses an MZR series engine, which is bigger, flows in the opposite direction, has a different bellhousing, different mounting points, different bore spacing, etc. It's likely that the oil drain plug might interchange between them, but certainly not something like a cylinder head. You could probably drop a complete NC engine/transmission combo into an NA or NB if you have access to a welder, a grinder, some basic metal-fabricating tools, and the ability to fabricate a custom driveshaft, but there's no way that one is just going to bolt in.
Likewise, the brake and suspension components are completely different. Swapping NC brake or suspension parts into an NA would be no easier than swapping Chevrolet or Mercedes brake and suspension parts into an NA.
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05-01-2009, 11:55 AM
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In terms of parts that are bolt-in compatible, my understanding is that the side-marker lights from the NC are a direct interchange with those on the Euro-spec NA/NB.
And that's it.
The engines and transmissions are from completely different families and there is roughly zero interchange between them. The NC uses an MZR series engine, which is bigger, flows in the opposite direction, has a different bellhousing, different mounting points, different bore spacing, etc. It's likely that the oil drain plug might interchange between them, but certainly not something like a cylinder head. You could probably drop a complete NC engine/transmission combo into an NA or NB if you have access to a welder, a grinder, some basic metal-fabricating tools, and the ability to fabricate a custom driveshaft, but there's no way that one is just going to bolt in.
Likewise, the brake and suspension components are completely different. Swapping NC brake or suspension parts into an NA would be no easier than swapping Chevrolet or Mercedes brake and suspension parts into an NA.
And that's it.
The engines and transmissions are from completely different families and there is roughly zero interchange between them. The NC uses an MZR series engine, which is bigger, flows in the opposite direction, has a different bellhousing, different mounting points, different bore spacing, etc. It's likely that the oil drain plug might interchange between them, but certainly not something like a cylinder head. You could probably drop a complete NC engine/transmission combo into an NA or NB if you have access to a welder, a grinder, some basic metal-fabricating tools, and the ability to fabricate a custom driveshaft, but there's no way that one is just going to bolt in.
Likewise, the brake and suspension components are completely different. Swapping NC brake or suspension parts into an NA would be no easier than swapping Chevrolet or Mercedes brake and suspension parts into an NA.
I'm under the impression that he plans to drop the 6 speed trans along with the whole drivetrain into his car. He's also going to use the NC engine.
Any info on where he could get cams for that engine?
Thanks
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05-01-2009, 11:57 AM
#4
Tell him to sell his NC stuff and drop in an LSX motor. Would be MUCH MUCH easier.
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05-01-2009, 12:28 PM
#7
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The front NC sway bar endlinks are the same as the rears on the NB. You can use the horn on any of the earlier cars, Euro side markers (as stated above) and that's about it. I went over a salvaged NC here piece by piece comparing parts, and that's is all I came up with.
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05-01-2009, 12:35 PM
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Guys, you don't understand. It's a track car .
Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year. He's limited to a stock engine (only headwork may be performed), naturally aspirated and he's competing with a bunch of Honda guys. He told me he won a race with a 1.8 engine from an NA he currently has in the car that put down 120whp. He's just reacting to the fact that the regulations changed and the Honda guys can also use bigger Honda engines.
The 2006 totaled car is already on the way over here.
He's not going to use the chassis or anything else.
I'm just trying to assist him in finding out how to get the maximum performance from his car. I want the Miata to beat the Hondas!
Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year. He's limited to a stock engine (only headwork may be performed), naturally aspirated and he's competing with a bunch of Honda guys. He told me he won a race with a 1.8 engine from an NA he currently has in the car that put down 120whp. He's just reacting to the fact that the regulations changed and the Honda guys can also use bigger Honda engines.
The 2006 totaled car is already on the way over here.
He's not going to use the chassis or anything else.
I'm just trying to assist him in finding out how to get the maximum performance from his car. I want the Miata to beat the Hondas!
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05-01-2009, 12:43 PM
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Guys, you don't understand. It's a track car .
Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year. He's limited to a stock engine (only headwork may be performed), naturally aspirated and he's competing with a bunch of Honda guys. He told me he won a race with a 1.8 engine from an NA he currently has in the car that put down 120whp. He's just reacting to the fact that the regulations changed and the Honda guys can also use bigger Honda engines.
The 2006 totaled car is already on the way over here.
He's not going to use the chassis or anything else.
I'm just trying to assist him in finding out how to get the maximum performance from his car. I want the Miata to beat the Hondas!
Local racing regulations allow him to use a Miata engine from "any" year. He's limited to a stock engine (only headwork may be performed), naturally aspirated and he's competing with a bunch of Honda guys. He told me he won a race with a 1.8 engine from an NA he currently has in the car that put down 120whp. He's just reacting to the fact that the regulations changed and the Honda guys can also use bigger Honda engines.
The 2006 totaled car is already on the way over here.
He's not going to use the chassis or anything else.
I'm just trying to assist him in finding out how to get the maximum performance from his car. I want the Miata to beat the Hondas!
It's still not worth it at all. We've dyno'd several NC miata's, and there hasn't been one that makes over 137 wheel horse (that's with cold air intake, exhaust), the average being about 132. For the weight difference in the NC components, the huge pain in the *** to make it work, and the very little power gain, I would say just do some head work on a NB miata motor, and maybe bump the compression up (would they be able to tell? - no.)
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05-01-2009, 12:44 PM
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I gave him my phone number and told him about this forum. When he communicates with me (if he's fluent in English), I'll ask him to register and ask for himself.
In the meantime; I need info on where to get some aggressive cams for his car.
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05-01-2009, 12:48 PM
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It's still not worth it at all. We've dyno'd several NC miata's, and there hasn't been one that makes over 137 wheel horse (that's with cold air intake, exhaust), the average being about 132. For the weight difference in the NC components, the huge pain in the *** to make it work, and the very little power gain, I would say just do some head work on a NB miata motor, and maybe bump the compression up (would they be able to tell? - no.)
Where can I find the weight of both the NB and NC engines and drivetrains?
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05-01-2009, 12:49 PM
#13
Good choice if that's the case. The MZR is also known as the Ford Duratec. Its the same short block. Cosworth makes shitloads of parts for it, including a big valve head, cams, intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds.
That having been said, I think 200 whp is the upper limit N/A with the entire Cosworth catalog put into the engine, so he definitely has a little bit of a power deficit against the Hondas.
I've seen numbers indicating weight savings of about 70-90 lbs going from the cast-iron B6/BP family to the all-aluminum MZR/Duratec. But dont quote me on that.
EDIT: For that money he could easily buy this: http://cosworth.com/shop_item.php?productid=454 and be competitive much sooner than fooling around with doing the engine work himself. Just be sure to use a cam cover from the MZR.
EDIT2: If he's Mr.Moneybags then he could always buy this: http://mazdanews.com/images/fullsize...R-R-Rear-A.jpg ; 300 whp in N/A form, apparently.
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05-01-2009, 12:54 PM
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****. I was coming to this conclusion as I read the other posts but he already bought the 2006. It's going to cost him an extra US$2,000 just to bring it over and that's declaring the car as a racing car to use the parts.
Where can I find the weight of both the NB and NC engines and drivetrains?
Where can I find the weight of both the NB and NC engines and drivetrains?
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05-01-2009, 01:02 PM
#15
Somebody in his class might raise the point that since Mazda changed the name of the car (technically or semantically), and since it's basically a completely different automobile, that an NC motor swap is illegal.
Ie, could 2004 Chevy Malibu owner convert his car to rear-wheel drive and drop in a 454 from a '78 Malibu and still be legal? Some of those competitive racer types who actually play for points won't stand for that ****... just for thought.
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05-01-2009, 02:03 PM
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I hope he posts here so we all can find out what he can and can't do.
BTW, I loved both the Cosworth and that other "Mazda" engine. I doubt he could get away with any of those 2 though.
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