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Old 09-19-2016, 09:18 AM   #1
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Default New to the scene... track car...

Morning....



I heard this was a great place to sound out some ideas on what I have planned...



I am now a firm believer in research research research before I move onto a project ..... lots of times bitten but a slow learner..



I currently have a MK Indy 2.0 zetec on jenveys and a megasquirt as a weekend toy / track car only 2 track days completed both at blyton park.



I have been looking into the mx5 to move to for a few reasons...



1. its was built by mazda and not by dave in a shed.... gives you a little more confidence if the worse should happen you might walk away.

2. the amount of info on some of you guys turning these fun amazing handling cars into real machines capable of embarrassing much more expensive machinery.

3. I like the option of the hard top meaning I can still be driven even on colder slightly damp days.





So the plan......



Buy an 2002/2003 2.5 VT sport under 90K no rust well looked after 1500-2250 preferably with a hardtop.



Basic Mods, Coilovers, de cat exhaust, uprated disc, mintex 1144 pads (unless people know of better), stand alone fuel management, 15x9 wheels and decent semi slick medium tyres. strip the car race seats, half cage and harnesses





Then buy spare 2.5 VT engine, have its stripped, balanced, polished, bored, rebuild with new uprated gaskets, forged rods, arp bolts, pistons, new valves and springs, possibly cam's, clutch... I have been quoted 1k for the labour then I pick the bits so possibly 2.5K



Then with the new engine turbo, manifold, downpipe, injectors, intercooler, re use the stand alone currently on the car, uprate the fuel pump. People have told me td04-13t for availability and price... but they seem to run out of steam 5.5-6 so I had looked at either td05-16g/20g. I know in the states they like the T3 turbos. or do I use the td04 and some race cames which wake up form 4.5-7k???



I don't know if I am going too big too quick..... I have spoken with g19 regarding the stand conversion using the td04 setup including ECU for about 2k..... which should be good for 230bhpish....



speaking with other turners with the uprated engine and the td05 16g I'd be good for 300bhp.....



eventually in a couple of years to come I fancy turning it into and mev exocet.... maybe.



Like I say I am new to all this and forums.... so be gentle...
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:28 AM   #2
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td04 220/250hp.
great for your first engine whilst you build the second.
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Old 09-19-2016, 09:46 AM   #3
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What is a 2.5 VT engine? Do you mean the 1.8L VVT motor? If you want track reliable plan on spending a ton of money on the miata. For the turbo side the TSE setup is just about the only one I will recommend on track. The EFR's are a world above any TD0xxx crap you will find used.

Plan on 10-12k USD into the engine and turbo setup to get to a reliable 300whp on the track.
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:00 AM   #4
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sorry yes in the UK its classed as MK2.5 ... but yes the 1.8 VVT..

So am I just better accepting and living with the 230whp and not bother with an internal work and fit the turbo kit straight to the car from the get go and save about 7-10K USD?

I had looked at the ERF's but still carry a hefty price tag.... there were other Borg Warner turbos at about half that.
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:23 AM   #5
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The other Borgwarners you see for half the price are not EFR's. There is a big difference between them. TSE is the one company in the miata world who built their turbo setup specifically to be tracked. There are no other companies building them that go as fast, or as reliable. They are expensive, but that is because it is the cost of reliability.

Realistically tracking on a stock motor above 200whp becomes sort of a crap shoot. It will probably last a good while, but may go boom quickly. The stock rods are the weak point. They tend to bend around 225-250ft/lbs of torque. On track abuse tends to be several levels higher then a street car, so much higher chance of **** breaking in the engine. The stock VVT pistons are also a higher compression so that adds in a bit more complication. Mostly in the way that it limits how much spark you can run.

What I would do is get a TSE setup with a EFR 6258 and the low wastegate. I would run it on my stock motor. Then I would pick up a spare VVT motor and build it over a year or so. That way you can swap it in later and turn up your boost to your hearts content. A properly built bottom end will take more power then you will ever be able to throw at it.
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Old 09-19-2016, 10:59 AM   #6
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And I'm still not sure if I'd want to add the complexity of the VVT to a tracked turbo. Since with a decent turbo setup your power limit isn't really what the engine can produce, but what the whole drivetrain can handle, you don't need VVT to squeeze another 10hp or so out of the engine.
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
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And I'm still not sure if I'd want to add the complexity of the VVT to a tracked turbo. Since with a decent turbo setup your power limit isn't really what the engine can produce, but what the whole drivetrain can handle, you don't need VVT to squeeze another 10hp or so out of the engine.
Depending on what megasquirt he has, there could be Zero complexity added. Ms3 runs vvt just fine. A vvt box with a ms2 works well too.

The benefits are far better than just 10 hp..
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:18 AM   #8
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I was referring to mechanical complexity. Added oil lines, actuator etc. Granted, it's not a highly complex system, but still...
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:22 AM   #9
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You are over thinking the complexity of the VVT system. Also it does not give you any more top-end over the 99/00, it gives you a ton of mid-range power and helps spool out a ton. I honestly think drivetrain issues are overstated for 95% of the population. A 6 speed will handle the power that the majority of us put down. It is usually only the ones with 350+whp and tracking/autox extremely competitively that have issues.
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:25 AM   #10
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Yep, before I went VVT I was worried about the complexity. Then I got all the stuff and was like, "this is it? It was a valve cover an oil line and a banjo bolt.
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Old 09-19-2016, 12:55 PM   #11
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Every time someone says the words "complexity of VVT" a kitten dies
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Old 09-19-2016, 01:48 PM   #12
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OKOKOK - I'm shutting up
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:14 PM   #13
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Mark 1= NA
Mark 2= NB
Mark2.5= NB2

etc.
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Old 09-19-2016, 11:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Every time someone says the words "complexity of VVT" a kitten dies
LOL yeah that fancy VVT!

To the OP, welcome to the forum. Good people here with great advice.
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Old 09-20-2016, 03:49 AM   #15
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I had vvt woes... it seemed fancy. Then after 50km of driving with it switched 'on' and throwing errors it just started working.
Pretty plug and play.
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Old 09-21-2016, 06:41 AM   #16
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ok I have decided and I've made my mind up.... I have been offered a VVt 1.8 with 63,000 on for about 250 USD ... so going to get it delivered direct to the engine builders who said they will fit bits as an when they can to keep the cost down...

He suggested they strip the engine completely, clean it an bore and hone the cylinders then they will contact me with the size of pistons needed... I have read standard is 83mm so possibly 83.5 after...

2 questions... What compression and pistons etc....read something about forge piston expanding and causing slap.... had a cosworth that developed this tractor like slap and don't want that again.

secondly what else should I get done.... read things about replacing valves and springs??? or enlarging ports..but then which valves do you need?

What gaskets would you recommend to put it all back together with

lastly.... do I use arp everywhere or just for the rods and head?
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:42 AM   #17
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My thread will answer every single one of your questions.
http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-...o-build-81806/

If you get to pictures of a complete engine, you went too far.
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Old 09-22-2016, 05:28 AM   #18
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ok cool... so 8.6.1 supertech pistons with wisco rings, manley rods and arp head studs and bolts... and an FM gasket kit.. will that include the head gasket?

what about the valves do I just have them take out and cleaned and reseated rather than upgrading...

doing some more research... I might lower my power needs and stick to 240-275 rwhp...

I really woud rather spect the engine to take 300rwhp safely but run it at 80% to allow reliability I don't have the time or funds to rebuild it every 6 months.
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy20282 View Post
ok cool... so 8.6.1 supertech pistons with wisco rings, manley rods and arp head studs and bolts... and an FM gasket kit.. will that include the head gasket?

what about the valves do I just have them take out and cleaned and reseated rather than upgrading...

doing some more research... I might lower my power needs and stick to 240-275 rwhp...

I really woud rather spect the engine to take 300rwhp safely but run it at 80% to allow reliability I don't have the time or funds to rebuild it every 6 months.
I think you are overthinking and overspending. You've done two track days, just get a car, make it safe and reliable, and go get the tires dirty.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:07 PM   #20
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I just talked with someone at work who's been loitering around the table tennis... uh... table. He's been within earshot and always talking about cars and driving and all of this garbage, so I told him to come out to the next autocross that's at an airport, and the excuses started to flow in.

"I don't know if I'm ready for something intense like that, what about the tires, my car isn't prepped, yeah I guess I should look into it, etc." Dude has a Fiesta ST and is himming and hawing about autocross.

You don't neeeeeeeeed anything. Just shut up and drive.
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