Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

OK ok ok.. I did use the search button, and have read up on stuff like Sav's wing. Well, I finally got my hands on a spare trunk lid for track days. I came across a very good deal on a wing too.. but, it's not a super tall one. What i am wondering is, in you guys' opinion, would this work with a higher angle of attack at higher speeds?? I'd be pretty sure it wont do much at lower speed because the lack of airflow, but it seems that at 100+ it would have some effect... probably just enough. Hell, I could always make some mounts later.

Just wanted to get some opinions...

BenR

iTrader: (2)

At low speeds with a high enough angle of attack it should work. I think Moti's original spoiler and all the autocross guys running basically the same thing pretty much proved that.

rharris19

iTrader: (41)

That doesn't look adjustable. Is it?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

needs more 10" extensions....

cueball1

iTrader: (13)

Mount some Airtabs across the HT to bring the air down to the wing. That or get it up into some cleaner air. Did you drive around with it some? Should feel some change at speed even on the street. Any plans for the front to balance out any effect the wing might have?

m2cupcar

iTrader: (5)

I tested nothing, the OE lip and a wing similar to above, but taller. The OE lip did create a noticeable amount of downforce compared to nothing, while the big wing made a dramatic difference over the OE lip. They will all create downforce and at lower speeds than you think. Note that the high dollar wings on race cars don't have that rounded trailing edge - that rounded edge is a boat anchor when it comes to drag.

gospeed81

iTrader: (51)

I would say that the added effectiveness of a taller wing would be worth it.

If you plotted:

1. Traction problems related to speed
2. Downforce as a function of speed for this wing
3. Downforce as a function of speed for Sav's wing



You may end up with something like this that would make that wing miss the sweet spot that Sav is talking about on corner exits with his.

This is just a guesstimate, but you get the idea. I would want more traction on the low/mid speed corners where the lower gearing inhibits throttle input.

BenR

iTrader: (2)

What you're missing is drag. the gay wing very well may produce just as much down force as the fancy wing, but at a much higher drag coefficient. You can produce a large amount of downforce with a flat sheet at a signifigant enough attack angle.

gospeed81

iTrader: (51)

Yeah, you're right, that just makes it worse.


Point being, if you're going to hang a 4' airfoil on the back of your car, you might as well drop the coin and get something that works. Working being lots of downforce -at effective speeds- without resorting to a crazy angle of attack. I've seen a few of the standard NACA airfoils in a wind tunnel, and drag force does ramp up pretty fast.

You'd likely end up sacrificing on two fronts with a wing like that.

BenR

iTrader: (2)

The price may make it worthwhile if you can pickup the difference in lap time you'd get from running hoosiers and no wing with nittos and a gay wing.

If you're on a slower track and can overcome the drag with power. If the majority of tracks are fast then it's probably not worth it.

m2cupcar

iTrader: (5)

I should add that the testing I did was on a 99 Miata weighing in at 2375lbs with driver and making 155rwhp. The car rolling on 225-24-15 spec Hoosiers. Testing at Rd. Atlanta, car was quicker with more downforce, and the big wing had a rounded edge. There's enough high speed turns at Rd. Atlanta to make even the crappiest wing worth the drag on a lower power Miata.

gospeed81

iTrader: (51)

So regardless of drag, weight, tires, or cheapness...the downforce is worth it?

So this means pretty much any Miata with more than 150whp can benefit from running a wing?

I believe it, I feel my rear end getting loser than hustler's on a Friday night when I do 80mph around a 45mph bend. I'm not sure how much drag one of those would add, but it's probably equivalent to what I could lose in two months with a good diet.

BenR

iTrader: (2)

The big draw backs on a gay wing like this that I can see is the airfoil might create alot of drag, and the end plates are thick and rounded and not removable, and it doesn't look like it's adjustable. The height of the wing is a cheap and easy enough thing to change. Looks like it mounts to the trunk but you can probably redrill and mount it farther out.

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

1- I can make the wing adjustable...not hard to fab up a bracket/riser with multiple holes.
2- I'm not going for every thenth/second... looking for some stability for HPDE/Track days between Road Atlanta and TGP.
3- 250+rwhp should be enough to have fun with.
4- Yes, I plan on a splitter/under tray for the front that will be about 1" in front of the bumper to the center of the front wheels (per SSM regulations..it's staying on the car when I do auto-x)

So, if said when can be had for under $300... it sound like a helper to me.

BenR

iTrader: (2)

Short summary

Chris Swearingen

iTrader: (1)

Don't spend $300 on that wing until you check your PM.

BenR

iTrader: (2)

What do you got?

Chris Swearingen

iTrader: (1)

My $.02 worth of free advice
Cost edited to a) not start a run and b) not speak for someone else and c) not advertise on the forum

m2cupcar

iTrader: (5)

I don't know that a crappy wing would show an advantage on every track for car "X". There's a lot of variables, which is why were testing. But at road atlanta, the increase in corner speeds allowed for higher speeds up three of the turns that exited into uphills. So that benefit was greater than the drag it created in the straights.

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

Which pretty much answers my question.


I'm not raving that this is the best wing design by any means, but more or less wondering that for the price, the design of the wing will indeed have benefits.