chicksdigmiatas

iTrader: (11)

Maybe i am a psychopath then?

Pen2_the_penguin

iTrader: (4)

shouldnt this talk be in the politics section?

localtech

iTrader: (4)

Haha
Hey look there's an astroid with alien bone!
There's no God!
Hey I like God!
Maybe there is a God!
Your stupid there's no God. We come from monkeys!
RNA DNA Protien

Funny how this stuff gets blown way out of context when talking about science and alter planetary lifeforms

Opti

I disagree that morality is part of our species. I think our current behaviors are from generations of social grooming, and every modern culture I can think of has a basis in some religion.

Plus morality is all relative depending on the group its used in reference to. What some find moral others do not and vise versa, there is no universal code of morality, so it really depends on your personal beliefs, which if you trace it back far enough are probably rooted in one religion or another.

sjmarcy

LOL, so that is why Microsoft is scrambling to make their OS ever more Mac-like (Win7).

Guys we are in the "Post PC" era now. The small device OSes like Apple's IOS and Android are the cutting edge. Apple's upcoming operating system for the Macs will be much more in the IOS direction (Summer).

That's how Apple keeps coming out with blockbuster products that have high profitability. They recognize that we are in the post-pc period.

Back on topic…there may even be an image of the new iPhone in a meteorite, but who knows...

sjmarcy

Disagree…at least some part of morality is in the genes. They find it in dogs. They find it in monkeys. Both have been wired up and when presented with certain "ethical choice" situations their brains figure out what to do...activating certain zones in certain ways. That part does not come from how you were raised. Heck even elephants have days long funerals for their own.

JasonC SBB

All the above are addressed in the book.

In 3 words, no, no, and no.

Opti

What type of situations do you mean?

Ive seen dogs kill other dogs when they weren't even provoked or threated, not an act that is considered moral in most of the human population.

I think we are wired (99.9% of people) for self preservation and self interest, the other characteristics are taught or picked up.

Ive never heard of selfless animal, maybe when dealing with ones offspring, but not sacrificing ones body for an unrelated animal.

JasonC SBB

Do you fit these descriptions?:

http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath_2.htm
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm
http://www.crisiscounseling.com/articles/psychopath.htm

Opti

Ive never read the book so would you enlightment me and explain how these are addressed and dispatched.

I can say with proof (look at modern humans), that with religion exists what we consider morality.

Do you have actual proof of the opposite? Is there a human anywhere that hasnt been subjected to a society rooted in a religion or any form of religion what so ever that displays morality.

As far as Im concerned on discussions like this it will always depend on who you ask. Some scientists will say undeniably its one way and others will say undeniably its the other way and all have "proof" hypothetically.

JasonC SBB

Click "first pages"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0805...0V#reader-link

Primates exhibit a rudimentary "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" moral code. (Reciprocity)

When humans do something altruistic, the brain secretes endorphins.
It makes helping others feel good. Evolution produced this.

Do you mean to tell me, that it's only fear of God's punishment that makes you follow your own moral code?

Do you think atheists are less moral than non-atheists?

Opti

Well reciprocity isnt really moral, its just trade and its in ones best interest. They aren't helping just to help, they are helping to get helped in return.

Not all primates are like that either, I watched a movie on the two opposite ends of the primates and in one species the females have sex with every male so the males wont beat them and their offspring. If they mate with all of them, all the males will think its their offspring and not beat them, cause when they dont the males just go around beating the **** out of the females and the little ones. Ill try to figure out what species it was.

Its not my fear of gods punishment, it's what i was taught since my birth and exposed to in society and my religion, and the fear of punishment by society, both law and just being considered crazy. Id punch many a people in the damn face if I was worried about assault charges.

I dont think atheist are generaly less moral than non-aethists, I think they are a product of their surroundings and their upbringing, which even if their parents where atheists also, they were still exposed to religious beliefs because every human society I can think of has its roots in some religion.

wayne_curr

iTrader: (8)

Are you somehow trying to correlate entropy with evolution?

You know, gravity is just a theory.

JasonC SBB

Opti:

Humans' moral code comes from empathy.

Read this blog by a parent raising a psychopathic child for insight into how a person with no empathy thinks. How long do you think the human species would last if humans were all like this?:

http://raising-a-psychopath.blogspot...n-violent.html
http://raising-a-psychopath.blogspot...-and-lack.html

And, (normal) babies show a sense of right and wrong:
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/...rom-wrong.html

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

chicksdigmiatas

iTrader: (11)

I am sure that book is infalible and passed on 100% truth. For me yes.... If it wasn't for that, lord knows what I would be capable of, or what nasty thoughts I would have followed because it felt right at the time. As for atheists being less moral, then who gave them their moral structure. If you just let a kid go be raised somewhere with no rules, rules that I claim come from religion then turn them rampant on society, it probably wouldn't be good. Of course they wouldn't have the understanding of our society and how to take advantage of it, so the point would be moot. So if you take someone that truly believes nothing, and was raised by people that had no influence from us brainwashed folk, and their parents had no influence from us brainwashed folk, and they ended up not being savage crazies when they were adapted to our society, then I would believe you.... a little. But if I knew for a fact that I would not be held accountable in the end for my actions, I would seriously just go do what I wanted to all the time. The reason atheists are moral is because they were brought up in a moral society, produced by who? Not evolution. Even if religion is a total fraud, it is necessary. That book is just some quack twisting the theories so that people that want to go around saying there is no call for religion can sleep at night thinking they are just like that, and the social envoronment has no effect on people and the way they act what so ever.

Edit: After researching this Michael Shermer guy, he is a moron. I have no respect for probably most of the stuff he has written. The reason I have never read that book, is that it would be better served as toilet paper. The poor tree that gave its life for that should have had a choice to become charmin instead.

Opti

I started reading that and had to stop, that kid stepped on a guitar and grab some chicks *** in school therefore he is going to rape and kill people. Whoever wrote that is ******* retarded. Worst reasoning ever. Just cause you have no feelings for a ******* piece of wood (guitar) doesnt mean you have no feelings for a living being. I've grabbed a few girls asses myself, never raped anyone though.

BenR

iTrader: (2)

Your argument is behavior is entirely nurture rather than nature.

I think there is a fox ranch in Russia that has some evidence to the contrary.

JasonC SBB

He did not say "Because he stepped on the guitar, he has no feelings for any other human being". He said, the kid's attitude towards humans is the same as towards the guitar.

If you read the whole blog, you will understand that the kid fits the description of the psychopath here:
http://www.amazon.com/Without-Consci.../dp/1572304510

JasonC SBB

This, and all your other points, are also addressed in these books:

The God Delusion
http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-R.../dp/0618680004

The Greatest Show on Earth
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...YLcpcdh_JQf5-3

Natural Selection is perfectly capable of producing hardwired morality.