Am I Crazy?
06-05-2014, 11:32 AM
#1
I'm a terrible person
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Am I Crazy?
Or do the latest Mustangs seem like a pretty good deal? The V8 with the track package and recaro seats comes in right at $30k new. Sure it is fat, and $30k is a lot of money for a "Stang", but looking at what you get, it's quite impressive.
The reviews are favorable as well.
The 5.0 is pretty badass. The car looks ******* good. The only downside is the **** interior. $30k for a new car that isn't a Versa seems to be the norm. The closest thing I could find in price, performance and options is the 370z.
The NC miata is cool and all, but even for the weight it is so damn slow.
Unless you go European, the only two options are the 370z and Mustang if you want something new and unmolested.
So what am I missing here? Did Ford make a decent car?
This is a goddamn good looking car:
Mmm recaros
The reviews are favorable as well.
The 5.0 is pretty badass. The car looks ******* good. The only downside is the **** interior. $30k for a new car that isn't a Versa seems to be the norm. The closest thing I could find in price, performance and options is the 370z.
The NC miata is cool and all, but even for the weight it is so damn slow.
Unless you go European, the only two options are the 370z and Mustang if you want something new and unmolested.
So what am I missing here? Did Ford make a decent car?
This is a goddamn good looking car:
Mmm recaros
Last edited by FRT_Fun; 06-05-2014 at 11:44 AM.
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06-05-2014, 12:11 PM
#2
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I just types up a huge post about how much I hate my '11 mustang after 3 years, and I got ******* logged out. **** my ******* life.
Recap:
Its heavy.
Shifter sucks (It feels like a stick stuck in a vat of ***** rubber).
No 2nd gear when cold, unless you double clutch it.
Stability control is to prevent retards from crashing, not for going fast. So when you drive it hard without remember to turn it off, it turns it a chaotic shitstorm of seemingly randomly applying different brakes. It has put me into crazy high-frequency oscillation/tank slappers when driving well within the cars limits.
Steering is vague and inspires little confidence.
Engine ticks from the bottom end every time you change the oil. The dealer puts some friction modifier in the oil to make it go away but they wont tell me what it is. Pretty sure its going to blow up one day.
Water pump went out already.
One of my axle seals blew, there is gear oil all over one wheel, and the differential is whining.
The plan is to trade it in on a slow hatchback with a good feeling shifter. Probably an Impreza, Mazda3, or a '15 Fit.
Recap:
Its heavy.
Shifter sucks (It feels like a stick stuck in a vat of ***** rubber).
No 2nd gear when cold, unless you double clutch it.
Stability control is to prevent retards from crashing, not for going fast. So when you drive it hard without remember to turn it off, it turns it a chaotic shitstorm of seemingly randomly applying different brakes. It has put me into crazy high-frequency oscillation/tank slappers when driving well within the cars limits.
Steering is vague and inspires little confidence.
Engine ticks from the bottom end every time you change the oil. The dealer puts some friction modifier in the oil to make it go away but they wont tell me what it is. Pretty sure its going to blow up one day.
Water pump went out already.
One of my axle seals blew, there is gear oil all over one wheel, and the differential is whining.
The plan is to trade it in on a slow hatchback with a good feeling shifter. Probably an Impreza, Mazda3, or a '15 Fit.
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06-05-2014, 12:17 PM
#3
Cpt. Slow
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No, not crazy. I haven't driven one, my main concern would be the same for any Mustang, Camaro, or other retro muscle car, which is that it'd feel like I'm driving from inside a tank. AKA: zero visibility.
But to compare build prices:
Mustang, you get 300hp/29mpg: $23,180. Couldn't find an LSD option here.
370z, you get 332hp/26mpg: $33,830
MX-5, you get 167hp/28mpg: $27,700
Edit: I was going to edit this saying it's hard to beat the Mustang's pricing and engine performance, but after reading FTB's review above....nope nope nope nope.
These prices are all "out the door", which means after delivery, MSRP. From what I've heard you could possibly knock a couple grand off the Z and 'stang, but not more than a few hundred off the MX-5. Also, they're all freeway MPG. City MPGs are just sad.
But to compare build prices:
Mustang, you get 300hp/29mpg: $23,180. Couldn't find an LSD option here.
370z, you get 332hp/26mpg: $33,830
MX-5, you get 167hp/28mpg: $27,700
Edit: I was going to edit this saying it's hard to beat the Mustang's pricing and engine performance, but after reading FTB's review above....nope nope nope nope.
These prices are all "out the door", which means after delivery, MSRP. From what I've heard you could possibly knock a couple grand off the Z and 'stang, but not more than a few hundred off the MX-5. Also, they're all freeway MPG. City MPGs are just sad.
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06-05-2014, 12:33 PM
#4
FRT, maybe "old" is a better word than "crazy".
Bottom line:
The non-American car company which competes directly with this car pays for the labor and materials to build their car, plus a reasonable amount for some retirees which negotiated such benefits as a condition of hiring.
The American car company has to pay for all of the same things AND they have to pay the union retirees 5x as much as the average working American plus benefits
In order to be cost competitive, the American car company has to skimp somewhere, and they're surely not skimping on giving raises to retirees. The big 3 currently do not have the money to invest in reliability of their herds, and they know that their bottom line doesn't rest on the resale value of their cars. You pay them money for a car, they make sure it runs for 36,000 miles, and that's the end of their obligation to you.
The horror stories I've heard from direct contacts buying new "big 3" cars in the last 3 years is enough to keep me away from them for a long time. The golden age of the American Car ended sometime in the early nineties. The golden age of the foreign car began sometime in the early 2000s. Between the early nineties and the early 2000s, there are a few good reliable cars, that's a timeframe requiring diligent research before buying an unknown car.
Tesla is an American car company. I would buy a Tesla. You would get far more value per dollar out of a Tesla than you would a Mustang. They are sexier too.
Bottom line:
The non-American car company which competes directly with this car pays for the labor and materials to build their car, plus a reasonable amount for some retirees which negotiated such benefits as a condition of hiring.
The American car company has to pay for all of the same things AND they have to pay the union retirees 5x as much as the average working American plus benefits
In order to be cost competitive, the American car company has to skimp somewhere, and they're surely not skimping on giving raises to retirees. The big 3 currently do not have the money to invest in reliability of their herds, and they know that their bottom line doesn't rest on the resale value of their cars. You pay them money for a car, they make sure it runs for 36,000 miles, and that's the end of their obligation to you.
The horror stories I've heard from direct contacts buying new "big 3" cars in the last 3 years is enough to keep me away from them for a long time. The golden age of the American Car ended sometime in the early nineties. The golden age of the foreign car began sometime in the early 2000s. Between the early nineties and the early 2000s, there are a few good reliable cars, that's a timeframe requiring diligent research before buying an unknown car.
Tesla is an American car company. I would buy a Tesla. You would get far more value per dollar out of a Tesla than you would a Mustang. They are sexier too.
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06-05-2014, 12:48 PM
#5
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I wish I could buy a brand new '96 Civic EX, right now.
I would gladly give up my 400hp V8 to have a nimble, gas sipping, reliable, little coupe with a shifter that feels like a well oiled bolt-action rifle.
Cars just suck now.
I would gladly give up my 400hp V8 to have a nimble, gas sipping, reliable, little coupe with a shifter that feels like a well oiled bolt-action rifle.
Cars just suck now.
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06-05-2014, 01:05 PM
#8
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The '15 is an all new chassis and interior though yes? IRS, which had better be good considering they made the last live axle fairly competent. Better styling, etc. This thread is the first time I have heard people talk about the 4 cam 5.0 or the DI V6 negatively, though I have not been looking.
Test drove a '13 V6 with my Mom when she was car shopping. Its felt big, but it did have a nice turning radius, and it soaked up mid corner bumps that a low mileage '10ish car did not like at all. In fact its was a pretty nice driver. Did not feel like 300HP to me, but then all these modern cars are heavy as hell. It did make decent TQ and hold on to it up the revs which was nice. Main-line V6s have only made sense in the last 5-10 years IMHO. Before that they were almost universally a horrible combination of V8 mileage with warmed over 4 banger power. The 3.7L Mercedes/Jeep/Dodge engine is a great example of that. These new ones are actually fun to drive. The interior was blah for looks, but then her BRZ interior is also fairly plain, as is most everything below 35K that is not a VW product.
Test drove a '13 V6 with my Mom when she was car shopping. Its felt big, but it did have a nice turning radius, and it soaked up mid corner bumps that a low mileage '10ish car did not like at all. In fact its was a pretty nice driver. Did not feel like 300HP to me, but then all these modern cars are heavy as hell. It did make decent TQ and hold on to it up the revs which was nice. Main-line V6s have only made sense in the last 5-10 years IMHO. Before that they were almost universally a horrible combination of V8 mileage with warmed over 4 banger power. The 3.7L Mercedes/Jeep/Dodge engine is a great example of that. These new ones are actually fun to drive. The interior was blah for looks, but then her BRZ interior is also fairly plain, as is most everything below 35K that is not a VW product.
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06-05-2014, 01:37 PM
#10
I'm a terrible person
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I need a daily when I graduate in a year, and I want something new, or used but in absolute mint condition with no tampering or wear. Starting my search now because I hate every new car out, and all the good old cars are $50k or have been fucked with so extensively that it would takes years to sort.
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06-05-2014, 01:41 PM
#11
I'm a terrible person
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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I just types up a huge post about how much I hate my '11 mustang after 3 years, and I got ******* logged out. **** my ******* life.
Recap:
Its heavy.
Shifter sucks (It feels like a stick stuck in a vat of ***** rubber).
No 2nd gear when cold, unless you double clutch it.
Stability control is to prevent retards from crashing, not for going fast. So when you drive it hard without remember to turn it off, it turns it a chaotic shitstorm of seemingly randomly applying different brakes. It has put me into crazy high-frequency oscillation/tank slappers when driving well within the cars limits.
Steering is vague and inspires little confidence.
Engine ticks from the bottom end every time you change the oil. The dealer puts some friction modifier in the oil to make it go away but they wont tell me what it is. Pretty sure its going to blow up one day.
Water pump went out already.
One of my axle seals blew, there is gear oil all over one wheel, and the differential is whining.
The plan is to trade it in on a slow hatchback with a good feeling shifter. Probably an Impreza, Mazda3, or a '15 Fit.
Recap:
Its heavy.
Shifter sucks (It feels like a stick stuck in a vat of ***** rubber).
No 2nd gear when cold, unless you double clutch it.
Stability control is to prevent retards from crashing, not for going fast. So when you drive it hard without remember to turn it off, it turns it a chaotic shitstorm of seemingly randomly applying different brakes. It has put me into crazy high-frequency oscillation/tank slappers when driving well within the cars limits.
Steering is vague and inspires little confidence.
Engine ticks from the bottom end every time you change the oil. The dealer puts some friction modifier in the oil to make it go away but they wont tell me what it is. Pretty sure its going to blow up one day.
Water pump went out already.
One of my axle seals blew, there is gear oil all over one wheel, and the differential is whining.
The plan is to trade it in on a slow hatchback with a good feeling shifter. Probably an Impreza, Mazda3, or a '15 Fit.
I guess I could get a nice NB, and have a good shop drop a V8 in it and have the best of both worlds. Any little issues with cars these days makes me go crazy though, so it would have to be OEM-like. I am getting old.
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06-05-2014, 02:38 PM
#12
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Its nice being able to blast passed slow traffic at half throttle without downshifting, but turbo does the same thing.
I love the Coyote engine, but everything else about the car ruins it.
Im just going to get a slow-mobile, meanwhile Im building a turbo ready Honda longblock which Im going to drop into a civic (once I buy one) and that will satisfy my need for speed. Plus it wont feel like a battleship.
I love the Coyote engine, but everything else about the car ruins it.
Im just going to get a slow-mobile, meanwhile Im building a turbo ready Honda longblock which Im going to drop into a civic (once I buy one) and that will satisfy my need for speed. Plus it wont feel like a battleship.
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06-05-2014, 08:01 PM
#17
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Paced with a fully cammo'd what i'm guessing to be a 2016 cobra. Basically this.
I've been seeing these for months now, somehow it's a big deal on the internet all of a sudden.
I was along side of him in the NA until he made me look silly. A simple revmatch downshift and he was gone. Up onto ford road then into the Ford HQ. I must admit, it sounded awesome i'd buy one just to be loud and obnoxious like everyone else around here.
I've been seeing these for months now, somehow it's a big deal on the internet all of a sudden.
I was along side of him in the NA until he made me look silly. A simple revmatch downshift and he was gone. Up onto ford road then into the Ford HQ. I must admit, it sounded awesome i'd buy one just to be loud and obnoxious like everyone else around here.
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