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Old 04-16-2013, 11:04 AM   #41
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Does anyone have any ideas on how I can accelerate the process or do I just have that body type that is going to require well over a year to get into perfect shape?
What does your diet look like? If you're still supplying it with a fair amount of carbs/sugars (which is highly possible even in a typical "balanced" diet), it's going to use that first for energy and your metabolism will never get very efficient at burning fat.

To accelerate that process, you need to be following a more ketogenic diet. This doesn't mean that you go all the way into full-blown ketosis, it just means that you restrict carbs enough that your body begins accessing body fat to be converted into fatty acids and ketones for energy. Eating a diet higher in (healthy) fats and much lower in carbs and sugars helps by forcing your body to turn on the fat->energy metabolic pathway.

tl;dr --

Cut grain-based carbs and white potatoes.
Cut sugars and artificial sweeteners.
Cut unhealthy fats (vegetable oils).
Add clean protein.
Add healthy fats (lard, butter, avacado, coconut).


It's worth mentioning, though, that many if not most people suffer what's commonly called a "carb flu" for a few days (headache, lethargy, "brain fog", etc.) as the body switches over to the new energy source.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:38 AM   #42
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calories in calories out!

I'm going to change my diet to this:

2000 calories of coke and donuts per day plus a daily multivitamin



or maybe I should do this:

800 calories of chicken + 800 calories of dark leafy greens + 400 calories of brightly colored starchy tubers

I wonder which one will lose me more weight?
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:09 PM   #43
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I have a serious question about weight loss or more precisely burning fat because the number is not important to me just what the mirror shows. I am 5'11" and have a pretty broad build so my healthy weight with a good amount of muscle is around 170lbs which I was maintaining for a while. Then I got a desk job and over the course of 4 months without making dietary changes I went up to 205 lbs and maintain that now +/- 5lbs.

I started a regular workout routine that I stuck to for 3 months while also changing my diet to a respectable amount of calories with balanced meals. I did all the calculators and read a **** ton on how to eat like making 5 smaller meals instead of 3 bigger ones. My workout was fairly intense and after 3 months I lost exactly 0 pounds. I did lose some fat and gained muscle but not nearly as much as I would have expected for 3 months of strict diet and exercise.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can accelerate the process or do I just have that body type that is going to require well over a year to get into perfect shape?
Ketogenic diet. Lift weights. Really heavy weights.

I'll send you a PM with stuff to get you started.
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ketogenic


This x2

Good lord, it's like we are nutrition brothers.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:27 PM   #44
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What does your diet look like? If you're still supplying it with a fair amount of carbs/sugars (which is highly possible even in a typical "balanced" diet), it's going to use that first for energy and your metabolism will never get very efficient at burning fat.
This may be the issue but I am not entirely sure. My usual food intake would look like this:

Breakfast:
1 large glass of milk
2 slices of real whole wheat bread with whole grains
a thin layer of natural peanut butter on each slice (just peanuts lightly salted grinded into a peanut paste with nothing else)

Snack 1: banana/apple/peach (whichever I feel like taking that day)

Lunch:
2 slices of previous bread
thin layer of mustard on 1 slice
thin layer of real mayo on other slice
2-3 ounces of Boar's head meat usually plain low salt turkey or low salt chicken
2 full length pickle slices
1 piece of boar's head cheese (asiago or picante provolone usually)
2 tablespoons of sauerkraut

Snack 2:
small cup of low fat yogurt
real granola bar

Dinner:
Large spinach based salad and very little (2 talespoons max) of some various low fat dressing

The workout usually looked like this:
20 minutes of intense cardio (sustained 170-180 heart rate)
25 minutes of weight training (rotate area)

5-6 times a week.

Just a bit of background. I am currently working 50 hour weeks and taking 3 master's classes. My time is limited so legitimately cooking is hard to do.

EDIT: I also consistently drink at a minimum a gallon of water a day. Rarely I will get up to 2 gallons in a day.

I also did tend to eat out on Saturday due to socializing and to be honest I would usually eat something not so healthy like wings or a burger but that is one meal in the entire week.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:36 PM   #45
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Too much starch/grains.
Too little fat.
You must have fat and protein at every meal/snack.

Starch and sugar cause a blood sugar spike which the body then deposits into fat.

You need to turn into a fat burning monster:
What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark's Daily Apple
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #46
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Cut the breads, add an egg or two. Really worked for me, and I don't exercise much.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Breakfast:
1 large glass of milk
2 slices of real whole wheat bread with whole grains
a thin layer of natural peanut butter on each slice (just peanuts lightly salted grinded into a peanut paste with nothing else)
Good on the natural peanut butter, but almond or cashew butter would be better. Hope the milk is whole milk. That toast is the killer.

Quote:
Snack 1: banana/apple/peach (whichever I feel like taking that day)
No problem here. There's a good amount of sugar in fruit, but there's also an appropriate amount of fiber and lots of good nutrients.

Quote:
Lunch:
2 slices of previous bread
thin layer of mustard on 1 slice
thin layer of real mayo on other slice
2-3 ounces of Boar's head meat usually plain low salt turkey or low salt chicken
2 full length pickle slices
1 piece of boar's head cheese (asiago or picante provolone usually)
2 tablespoons of sauerkraut
Again, the bread's the killer. Mustard's fine. Most store-bought mayo isn't great (vegetable oils), but that's a relatively small thing. Meat's fine, pickle's fine, cheese is fine, sauerkraut is fine. It'd be awesome if it was true fermented sauerkraut, but that's another fairly small thing.

Quote:
Snack 2:
small cup of low fat yogurt
real granola bar
Yogurt should be full fat, unsweetened, active cultures. Greek yogurt would be best. If you want a bit of sweet with it, drizzle a little raw unpasteurized honey (not processed honey). What's in the granola bar? I'm betting it's not helping you.

Quote:
Dinner:
Large spinach based salad and very little (2 talespoons max) of some various low fat dressing
No protein? No fat? The low-fat dressing isn't helping -- the issue isn't the total amount of fat, it's the type of fat. In this case, I'm 98% sure it's more processed vegetable oils. Extra virgin olive oil and balsamic vinegar would be way better.

Quote:
EDIT: I also consistently drink at a minimum a gallon of water a day. Rarely I will get up to 2 gallons in a day.
Don't overdo the water. Drink when you are thirsty. Don't freak out over the color of your urine -- unless it's really dark and infrequent, the color can vary depending on your diet and nutrient levels.

Quote:
I also did tend to eat out on Saturday due to socializing and to be honest I would usually eat something not so healthy like wings or a burger but that is one meal in the entire week.
You should be able to "cheat" once a week and still lose weight. But there are better options. Treat yourself and order a steak rather than a burger. Hell, a steak, a couple vegetables, and a salad isn't even a cheat.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:53 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
This may be the issue but I am not entirely sure. My usual food intake would look like this:

Breakfast:
1 large glass of milk
2 slices of real whole wheat bread with whole grains
a thin layer of natural peanut butter on each slice (just peanuts lightly salted grinded into a peanut paste with nothing else)
Milk is sugar water. Replace it with water. Bread = fat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Snack 1: banana/apple/peach (whichever I feel like taking that day)
Bananas are a big no-no for losing weight. Skip the fruit, replace with fat/protein.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Lunch:
2 slices of previous bread
thin layer of mustard on 1 slice
thin layer of real mayo on other slice
2-3 ounces of Boar's head meat usually plain low salt turkey or low salt chicken
2 full length pickle slices
1 piece of boar's head cheese (asiago or picante provolone usually)
2 tablespoons of sauerkraut
Bread=fat. Lunch meat is horrible, replace it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Snack 2:
small cup of low fat yogurt
real granola bar
I'm noticing a trend. LOW FAT = (usually) high carb/high sugar. Skip the yogurt and granola bar. That's just carbs and sugar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Dinner:
Large spinach based salad and very little (2 talespoons max) of some various low fat dressing
You should be using a FULL fat dressing.

Your diet is stereotypical of what people are told is "healthy". Fat =/= getting fat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
The workout usually looked like this:
20 minutes of intense cardio (sustained 170-180 heart rate)
25 minutes of weight training (rotate area)

5-6 times a week.
Too much cardio at the wrong heart level. You need to be doing interval training. It's 3x's more effective than solid state and you won't be wearing your knees/back out because it can be done in much less time. Lift weights for 45 minutes, focus on one muscle group a day or do split days. Heavy sets, none of this "light weight/more reps TONE UP bull ****" it's a myth.
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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
Just a bit of background. I am currently working 50 hour weeks and taking 3 master's classes. My time is limited so legitimately cooking is hard to do.
You gotta cook. Seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
EDIT: I also consistently drink at a minimum a gallon of water a day. Rarely I will get up to 2 gallons in a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
I also did tend to eat out on Saturday due to socializing and to be honest I would usually eat something not so healthy like wings or a burger but that is one meal in the entire week.
wings and burger (minus bun) is not a cheat. Hell, your normal meals are what I would consider a cheat.

Edit: I am obviously more strict than Mark. But that makes sense as I had a lot of weight to lose. You said you only wanted to lose 30lbs so you don't have to be all Adolf Hitler about it like I am, but it's up to you. You need to cut the carbs, add some fat/protein and change your work out routine.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:55 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
Good lord, it's like we are nutrition brothers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Too much starch/grains.
Too little fat.
You must have fat and protein at every meal/snack.

Starch and sugar cause a blood sugar spike which the body then deposits into fat.

You need to turn into a fat burning monster:
What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark's Daily Apple
Yup. I didn't even need to lose much weight at all, but I feel 200% better since I cut the grains and sugar back to basically zero. Stable energy levels all day.

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Originally Posted by rleete View Post
Cut the breads, add an egg or two. Really worked for me, and I don't exercise much.
Eggs are almost a perfect food. Don't screw around with egg whites, egg replacers, or any of that nonsense. Fry up some bacon, then cook the eggs in the bacon grease.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:04 PM   #50
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Well I will be taking this advice. I knew I was getting too little protein and that the bread probably was not the best idea but it was just convenient when I am in a time crunch. Avoiding low fat food is something I have not really heard so I learned something new with that.

I will change up my workout too and see how that works. I have heard so much back and forth over solid state cardio vs interval training that I can never sort out the facts. I might just try to get back into a set routine like insanity because I know it works and then I am not guessing.

Thanks for all the information. I guess I just have to make time to cook.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:17 PM   #51
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It's the right choice. There's tons and tons of good information on the internet for free.

I'm a big fan of Mark Sisson, Chris Kresser, and Robb Wolf.

A good place to start reading would be the Primal Blueprint 101.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:27 PM   #52
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Well I will be taking this advice. I knew I was getting too little protein and that the bread probably was not the best idea but it was just convenient when I am in a time crunch. Avoiding low fat food is something I have not really heard so I learned something new with that.
Carbs are easy to eat and will keep you full for a while, but it's unfortunate how bad they are for you. Low fat is just a trend. It's a collection of ignorance that is exploited by diet food companies that they use to keep repeat customers. It's sad.

I hear you on the time thing. I work from 3pm to 12am, so I decided to start making my meals ahead of time.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
I have heard so much back and forth over solid state cardio vs interval training that I can never sort out the facts.
I've lost 113lbs using interval training as part of my routine. Fact is, it works and don't let some bro-science snob tell you that your overall fitness and running abilities will suffer. That is pure BULL ****. My mile times are consistently in the 7 minute range (6ft-220lbs) and I do cardio for maybe an hour a week tops (14-16 minutes on the treadmill after a lifting session- 4.5 incline, 2 minute jog, 2 minute run-repeat)
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I might just try to get back into a set routine like insanity because I know it works and then I am not guessing.
I used insanity to get me started and some what in shape before I started lifting heavy again. Insanity is AWESOME. I still go back and do it in spurts for a week.
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Thanks for all the information. I guess I just have to make time to cook.
I really, really, really wish I had asked people a few years ago about this stuff. Never, ever be afraid to ask questions.

You'll be getting a PM soon with a routine.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:55 PM   #53
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First, Ryan_G (and everyone else doing so), you are to be commended for making (not "finding") the time to incorporate fitness in your schedule. I'm a desk jockey that works long hours so I understand the challenge.

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Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
I will change up my workout too and see how that works. I have heard so much back and forth over solid state cardio vs interval training that I can never sort out the facts. I might just try to get back into a set routine like insanity because I know it works and then I am not guessing.

Thanks for all the information. I guess I just have to make time to cook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
I've lost 113lbs using interval training as part of my routine. Fact is, it works [...]

I used insanity to get me started and some what in shape before I started lifting heavy again. Insanity is AWESOME. I still go back and do it in spurts for a week.
I will second Insanity. I definitely thought it was a worthwhile investment and, like VoM, I still go back and pop in one of the DVDs every now and then and punish myself. I will also say my cardio endurance was really improved versus steady state training. I used it to help get into shape for my first sprint mini-triathlon.

Not too long ago, it occured to me that, before Insanity and P90-X were ever invented or I had heard the acronym "HIIT," really fit guys were doing high intensity interval training. My personal experience is with Thai boxing training. You go at a high pace (hitting the heavy bag, the pads, an opponent, skipping rope, plyo, etc) for a few minutes, then rest. Then repeat.

I will also say that cooking your own food ahead of time is a big help with that "last bit of weight." I'm on board with most of Mark's critique to your diet as well.

I'll finish with, "Listen to people who have seen results using the methods they are recommending."
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:29 PM   #54
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Sunflower / Pumpkin / Flax / Chia seeds are all awesome sources of protein. Add a handful of sunflower seeds to your salads
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:16 PM   #55
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If you want to lose fat, its calories in vs. calories out. Period.

If you want to gain muscle, work out. Period.

Combine both and win at life.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:19 PM   #56
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Thank you for summarizing why CICO is the dumbest approach to weight loss.
Would you rather be fat and healthy, or skinny and not healthy. I'd rather not be gross, even if it took 10 years off my life.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:51 PM   #57
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Would you rather be fat and healthy, or skinny and not healthy. I'd rather not be gross, even if it took 10 years off my life.
That's a false dilemma -- you can't really be fat and healthy. Following a healthy diet and exercise plan will make you skinny and healthy (or, muscular and healthy, depending on your goals).

EDIT: I should add, I'm not particularly concerned with adding or subtracting years from my life. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But while I'm here, I want to feel good and look good. CICO won't get me there.

Last edited by mgeoffriau; 04-16-2013 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:25 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
That's a false dilemma -- you can't really be fat and healthy. Following a healthy diet and exercise plan will make you skinny and healthy (or, muscular and healthy, depending on your goals).

EDIT: I should add, I'm not particularly concerned with adding or subtracting years from my life. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. But while I'm here, I want to feel good and look good. CICO won't get me there.
It was a thought experiment. People want to be thin. They don't really care how they get there, but they know they want to be thin.



My recommendation is to either work out, or have a "real" job, which involves physical labor. I work as a mechanic, and when it's not terrible out I take a 2 mile walk after work. I eat what I want, and sprinkle in some fruit to keep my immune system up.

I live by the "bus dilemma". If you don't live the life you want, it's not worth living.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #59
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Why are people asking and taking advice from a car forum?
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:59 PM   #60
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Im way out of shape at the moment, the stresses of general life over the last 6 months have gotten my self discipline down.

However in the past I was 210lb and 8% body fat, 6'1'.
That was big enough, and fit enough for me.

I dont know why so many people have arguments about how to be fit.

Let me ask a question

List 5 things that make you fat and unhealthy.

Guess what? The opposite makes you skinny and PROBABLY healthy.

Replace fast carbs with slow carbs, eat lots of protein and fat.

30% protein, 40% carbs, 30% fat.

1.5g of protein per LB of healthy strong body weight that you are hoping to achieve.

Then go and lift big 4 days a week for an hour and do some cardio like ride to work or to the gym.

It just isnt complicated, its all Excuses vs Self Discipline, check my opening statement again, you will understand.

If anyone wants to start lifting big and getting fit google stronglifts, I know for a lot of noobies they are intimidated by showing up and not knowing what do do, so start with stronglifts and go from there.

Dann
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