patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

What kind of help? WHY won't he make it? What's required to make yourself better again?

Vashthestampede

iTrader: (17)

If you are determined to succeed you will. Maybe not in the sense of you will be famous and make a fortune. But you can certainly make a life for yourself rather than be the 5th generation drug dealer. You do have a choice. Although most that come from that type of environment choose to fail.

Sixshooter said it right above you bro.

What the **** do you guys keep saying "simple" for? How hard is it to grasp that not everyone needs a ******* helping hand in life to become more than a **** stain. I think we all might be talking about different people here. I'm not referring to anyone that holds a job and does their best, the ones that give a ****. Those aren't the people we are talking about. We are talking about freeloaders, losers, downers, etc.

levnubhin

iTrader: (30)

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/22...-a-60-inch-tv/
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote

jayc72

iTrader: (14)

Because he is a ******* child. No parental guidance. No community support. In fact a lot of kids in these situations don't just lack parental guidance or community support, what they get from their parents and the community is at odds with them ever being a contributing member of society.

You think these things aren't YOUR problem, and aren't YOUR fault. That's just sticking your head in the sand. His problem will become YOUR problem when he robs and kills you for the money in your wallet. It'll be YOUR fault because you turned a blind eye to the real issue at hand.

Priority number one should be to protect children and give them the tools to be successful in life. This is the responsibility of SOCIETY. Why because if ignored long enough it'll spill over into your life. Kids need to be caught early and educated that there are options for them, they don't have to fall in line and become a stereo type just because everyone around them is.

**** me, I can't honestly believe some of you people don't get this. You are all happy to support a government that spends BILLIONS to wage a fucked up war on a bunch of people you've never met. But spend that money to help your fellow countryman and you cry SOCIALISM?!?!

You look at your random poor person who's on welfare and see someone that has failed themselves. I see someone how's society has failed them. Absolutely some people are lost causes who enjoy being poor and living off of others, but to paint everyone with the same stroke is reckless and stupid.

Vashthestampede

iTrader: (17)

Perfect example my man.

Quoted from one of the inside links from that link;

Vashthestampede

iTrader: (17)

I agree that teaching kids from the get go is major important. Proper schooling and good parenting are key. I doubt anyone will disagree on that.

But to say that "John grew up in a foster home without anyone to teach him right from wrong, didn't go to school, and now he does heroin and robs women on the streets" is societies fault? Wow. That blows my mind you think like that. I agree we are responsible for ourselves in a whole yes. But are we supposed to be responsible for murderers too? People that maybe didn't get proper help when they were younger, had a meltdown and killed 12 people on a rampage. Thats our fault?

Ohh and you got it reversed. That ghetto kid that society failed coming to rob me and kill me, what about when I break his ******* neck in self defense and then I go to jail. And at the same time it all comes back to be my fault in the first place that he robbed me.

jayc72

iTrader: (14)

What choices do children have when there are no people around them to teach them to be other than drug dealers? What choices do children have when there parents teach them to be useless? What choices to children have when they grow up in an environment full of preditors that will use them for their own gains? What choices do they have when their parents are the predators? Who will help them? Who will guide them? With out this guidance the odds will be stacked against them, what realistic chances do they have at being part of society? Pretty ******* slim.
You are both wrong. Big deal.

Absolutely not everyone needs a helping hand. Not everyone will want one. Not everyone will benefit from it. Ignoring those that do need it is reckless and will erode the way of life you hold dear to yourself. It's already happening you are just too stupid (or stoned) to see what is about to happen.

You've got choices for sure. You can face the problem head on, or you can ignore it until it all goes to **** and you are fucked.

You speak a pretty brave line in an economy that's coming down around you ears. I bet just before the depression of the '30s a lot of people thought like you did. I imagine a lot of them were standing in soup lines in a couple of years.

jayc72

iTrader: (14)

Never said it would be society's fault. It's the fault of the child's parents and the environment they were 'raised' in. But it most certainly is society's problem. You might not have created the **** storm, but it is going to hit you none the less. What are you going to do about it?

Vashthestampede

iTrader: (17)

OK. So I'll ask you how does one help? Give them more money? Maybe more law enforcement? Whats your answer?

Stoned or not I know whats going on around me and I'm not happy about it. I don't care how bad things crumble around me, I'm not worried. In my type of work theres always jobs out there and even so, I have the work ethics and determination to move ahead.

The only way this will **** me, is by taking more money to give to these people.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Or he'll become four star general Colin Powell. I'm glad you have such faith in mankind and the indomitable human spirit.

It's what's on the inside of a person that counts. Didn't you learn anything from MLK Jr.?

"Nothing ever comes to one, that is worth having, except as a result of hard work." - Booker T. Washington

"If you're trying to achieve, there will be roadblocks. I've had them; everybody has had them. But obstacles don't have to stop you. If you run into a wall, don't turn around and give up. Figure out how to climb it, go through it, or work around it." - Michael Jordan

"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it." - Thomas Jefferson

It sure is funny that only successful people think that hard work can help them to achieve things. And losers believe that you are screwed from the word go and can only get better by screwing more people.

Maybe we should just kill everybody in the ghetto because nothing good will ever come from them. That wouldn't be the first time that was proposed.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

I can't compete with inane comics that are incorrect. I can't compete with Vash and your idea that everyone is equally capable of pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps.

they are not. do I gotta point out that the average IQ is 100 and that means that roughly half of the nation is pretty stupid? consider the fact that a lot of those poor people are genuinely trying to make their lives better and are simply unable to.

And it's pretty obvious you cannot apply these types of policies without ANY THOUGHT. that outlier example of the slum woman with a 60 inch TV is hardly typical. I've never seen any kind of statistics that suggest even a percent of poor families are gaming the system to get big screen freebies. A well implemented system would crack down on that bullshit. And last time I checked, a government run hospital (omg spending!) doesn't carry 60 inch tee vees that you take home.

Do you guys not feel you have some moral responsibility for these people at all? Is it acceptable deep down in your heart and soul that someone might be dying because they're not as clever as someone else?

y8s

iTrader: (8)

how about just starting by limiting the inept to just two kids. preemptive strike.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

That is both the fault of the fatties and the corporations allowed to make whatever unhealthy food they want flood the market. You can't smoke pot, but you can eat McDonalds 7 days a week. Which would kill you faster?

Is that what the "american dream" is? slaving away for something you detest just so you can eat? I'd like to think I aspire to more.

I doubt, with unemployment at whatever crazy 7 or 8 percent, that there will be a whole lot of even those jobs people would not like. the crowds in front of home depot are getting big these days. you can't hardly load stuff in your car without someone walking up and trying to help for "tips". And those guys would probably do just about any work they could find.

The "when I was a kid" is largely invalid. Nothing is like it was 50 years ago. my dad was in his prime then and thinks he can still get a pair of shoes for $1.00. A lot more things are available cheap than were even 20 years ago. The world is a pretty small place now.

But you know, I try to reuse stuff when I can. Consumerism is just as bad as laziness, but that's another discussion.

jayc72

iTrader: (14)

Provide intelligent social assistance. Don't give handouts. Provide options to people. Divert more tax money into education for kids at risk. Create programs that specifically target children that need it the most. Try to break the cycle that is producing your "**** stains".
If this is what you think you are seriously ignorant of your surroundings. It isn't GOING to **** you, it has already started. You just don't realize it. No amount of determination and hard work will get you that job if it isn't available to you. Get it?

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

.

Newbsauce

iTrader: (2)

Ironically I saw a show on the other day called "From G's to Gent's" or something along those lines. There are 16 individuals competing for 100k, and all they have to do is work to improve themselves (speech, job hunting, etc). Out of 16 individuals, there may be like 1-2 who actually try. I suppose self improvement AND 100k isn't enough to motivate people in today's society. Interesting representation of society when 15/16 individuals don't want to work even when the task is merely to improve themselves.

patsmx5

iTrader: (16)

I do think everyone can do better if they want to. I'm not saying everyone can be rich, famous, live a wonderful life and retire at 45. But everyone has room for improvement. I'm saying if you don't like the situation you are in you are the one who has to change it. The government can't do it for you. You say they aren't smart enough. This IS part of the problem. Ageed 100%. So how do we address this issue? Give them fish?

A guy I know that I've been friends with for years would fall in the "below 100" IQ area you refer to. He doesn't have any mental disabilities, but he's slow in the head in some ways. But he has a huge heart and they guy never gives up. He falls he gets back up. He falls again he gets back up and tries harder. He doesn't just accept failure. Guy works 60 hours a week at his job. He's not the fastest guy there, nor the smartest, but he does his best. Out of 100 guys he's trying the hardest every day, even though he's not the most efficient guy there. Guess what? If they had to lay off 20 guys he wouldn't be one of them. Though he probably has the lowest IQ out of the bunch, he doesn't let that stop him from doing his best, even though his best isn't the best there is. His best is enough to separate him from the crowd, despite his own shortcomings.

How about this. SOME that are in poverty are capable of pulling themselves out. Would you agree with that?

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, that was proposed too, right after the mentally incompetent were "cleaned" from the mental hospitals and right before the ghettos were cleared of inferior worthless people. The Jewish ghettos that is...


The point is, you can't just give up and say to people "You will never make it on your own." And to make it worse, you break their spirit and will to achieve by giving them things they haven't earned. That is such a disservice.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

I agree that some people, even not poor, are lazy!

Btw, I wouldn't "give a fish" as I mentioned before. fishing lessons man! Although fish are brain food, aren't they?

Incidentally, we had a guy who worked here for a month. technically qualified, but had issues with himself or whatever and he QUIT because he didn't feel he was doing a good job. What category does he fall in? the "wtf" group I think. he was weeeeeeeird.

OK now for a little common ground comic relief:

Vashthestampede

iTrader: (17)

How exactly are certain jobs not available? Please explain what you mean? Are you trying to say that kids from the ghetto don't have the chance that kids in the suburbs have? Or are you saying that kids from the ghetto have such a small chance of going to college that there are many jobs unavailable to them? Or both?

Because in reality, my father didn't even finish the 8th grade and owns his business and has run it successfully for 45 years! Now how in the **** did he do it? Maybe he was from PA and not the inner-city slums, but he came from nothing. He showed hard work and determination, he learned, he saved, and he made something for himself. Now he's instilling that in me and I'm grateful for it.

To say "well they started off fucked so unless we help them they are fucked for good" is ignorant. Thats just aiding the losers of the country. Go ahead and walk around with your nose in the air, and your head up your ***, giving more and more and more to those undeserving and it'll probably in some way shape or form come back to **** you.

I cant argue with liberals that think everything is cookies and cream. What the **** happened to the hard working American dream? The idea that if you work for it, anything is possible. Why all this talk about hands outs. Were you guys really raised that way? Got what you wanted all the time? Always had someone by your side to say "good job boy"? Come on, wake up.