2manyhobyz

iTrader: (4)

I found these guys on facebook and wanted to share it with the MT.net crowd. Looks like they are pushing the envelope of what you can do with a BP motor. Pretty insane numbers. If I understand right they are using a EVO ECU and custom harness to run the car. I think they are using EvoScan software. Anyway, I thought this was pretty interesting.

https://www.facebook.com/BP-Performa...48847/?fref=nf

And the EvoScan stuff:

ECU Mods

This could be another choice on the table as far as what we have to choose for tuning our cars.
Disclaimer: No, I don't have anything to do with these guys.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

Both @TurboTim and @matthewdesigns ran EVO8 ecu's with dsmtuner.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

matthew used a dsm ecu iirc
turbotim didn't. you're thinking of Tom from toms turbo garage

this seems pointless to me considering what we have available

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

oops. I meant turbotom.​

@underdog

2manyhobyz

iTrader: (4)

So just for the sake of discussion, is an evo 8 ecu less capable than Megasquirt? These guys are selling what they are calling plug and play kit for $395.00.
What do you guys think are the the pluses and minuses of this compared to, let's say, Megasquirt.
They both look like they have a great user support base.
Mitsubishi is a mult-national corporation established in 1917, with fairly large R&D department.......
Megasquirt has much more direct links with their users.
Is it apples to apples? I'm familiar with Megasquirt, but this might be more capable for the same/less money.
Discuss.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

For a start this has obd2 *****

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

By the way I sexually approve of their car. It has the best turbo for the BP motor, the BorgWarner S300SX. Perhaps at long last my Miata will for fornicate with its own kind.

TNTUBA

iTrader: (1)

Post on their page from Dec 13 talks about 500hp from a bone stock BP. Claims to be a stock, unopened BP.

Just saying.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Couple things: since the ecu is an oem ecu, you are working around reverse engineered tables and definitions and tuning interface/software. Not every single line of code in the ecu is defined (that I know of, there are thousands in modern ecu's). What this means is no real time updates, you gotta pull over, stop, turn the car off, and reflash for any updates. You also don't have many custom inputs/outputs from the ecu, and have to wire in a wideband through what would otherwise be the oem narrowband pins, gotta wire in a map sensor cause the silly usdm evo8 ecu doesn't even come with a map sensor just a baro sensor, you gotta do a LOT of stuff to work around a lot of the restrictions and compromises simply because you're not starting from scratch. Oh and you gotta run a MAF, or re-do stuff to convert it to speed density. Then when you log, while I'll admit the sample rate is pretty decent and there are lots of parameters for logging defined, it's still limited and you're still making compromises.

Now, the mitsu boys have gone VERY far working around/with the oem ecu, and frankly I'm really impressed at how far they've come with making absurd power on it, but it simply doesn't make sense to go through all the trouble of adapting this to a different car to save a couple hundred bucks and be severely limited in many options and flexibility. After you spend all the money and time re-wiring and setting it all up to work, you've just dumped days/weeks into it and at least $600.

It just doesn't make practical sense unless you're just bored and want to waste a ton of time on a project like this.

Oh and fae, obd2 means diddly when it's retrofitted to a completely different engine/sensors/wiring/car

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

We discussed that in another thread. I think the consensus was late spooling fwd car might be able to stay intact for a dyno run.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

you guys would laugh if you saw the timing table for one of those plots

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Picture of the timing table? I have no clue what sort of timing an Evo8 runs or anything.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Well, assuming all the sensors are there, what's the issue? Sensor input?

oh yahhhh i guess that whole car make model mismatch? I like, know nothing about obd2

2manyhobyz

iTrader: (4)

Vlad, thanks for the explanation. It makes sense that there will be some additional costs to bring it on line.
Do you think they are are holding the timing back until the engine is above 4k before tuning for maximum brake torque? Potentially less stress on the rods after the rotational mass is really moving.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Yeah, it's not just about having sensors, they all gotta work exactly how they did on the evo, and all the other junk has to be exactly the same too.

LOL just wait till you have to deal with CARB or get ref'd here in CA. You're gonna love it so much. Make sure to post up and tell us all about it

I'll dig one up if I'm bored later.

Picture a table full of negative values, ranging from -2 to -10


I honestly don't think they even try to tune for MBT.
They just keep throwing fuel and boost at it and retarding the timing. the whole engine/turbo setup ends up being like a gigantic turbine or turbojet
Evo tuning is a really crude process. A lot of the big turbo BP maps I've looked at, it's about the same.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Your boy never gave me a reacharound. :( I think I'm gonna officially move to north carolina so i can live with lars and his wives.

Yes I actually looked at a lot of evo timing maps when I was running big boost. I was shocked- they run like 15* at redline... at 40psi. This was before e85 became big but still they played it pretty safe and that community has a shitton of $$$$$$ r&d experience.

matthewdesigns

iTrader: (8)

The Mitsu stuff works for me right now, and I can make on-the-fly changes to fuel settings, and crude timing adjustments. But as Vlad stated, I do have to stop to rework the individual cells in my timing tables, flash, then restart, etc. It is pretty flexible at this point with multiple configurable inputs. The Evo8/9 ecu is mostly a glorified DSM ecu, and you can even run the DSM software I run (ECMLink) in an Evo8 ecu. I know nothing about Evoscan other than the user interface is nowhere near as good as ECMLink.

I've stated multiple times that next time I start with a fresh chassis it'll be MS. If starting with a stripped chassis then this might make sense if all the parts are around and you don't mind some wiring. If you are retrofitting in a complete chassis it's not worth it IMHO.

2manyhobyz

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Matt for setting the record straight. Apparently the grass isn't greener on the other side of the EVO 8 fence.............

matthewdesigns

iTrader: (8)

Sure. Definitely not trying to poop in their punch, as I'm at the same party. Just way easier to go MS.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

lol
Let me tell you: it's absolutely terrible.

I use ecuflash+Evoscan9 iirc to tune the 8,9,10's and absolutely hate it (evoscan).
doing the 10's is the worst cause only about 30% of the logging parameters are defined and you have to hack the code and use all sorts of work-arounds to be able to actually log the car enough to tune it.