y8s

iTrader: (8)

Hell yes I'm referring to the non taxed earnings. My example was clear. You put in 5000 dollars (which costs you 7700 say because it's taxed) and you earn 600% over the life of the investment in your roth grossing you 30k. that's ALL YOUR MONEY. you already paid 2700 dollars in taxes on 30,000 dollars of income at retirement. that's like 9% compared to being in the 25% tax bracket otherwise. but if you want to give up 14% for personal reasons, go ahead.

Not all funds have fees. I have my IRA money in an S&P index for example. It's a no fee "fund" that's not managed. It tracks an index = not managed. So I pay whatever my etrade comission is to put it in and to take it out. Since my whole ira's in there, it's 9.99 each time. And what's more, on the S&P you earn dividends! some companies give you money for holding their stock. shock and awe.

managed mutual funds can lick my *****. 99 times out of 100 they underperform the market over the long term. and cost more. and dont pay dividends. You should really look into "no load" funds.
The reality is you should put money into the market no matter what the market is doing. and do it regularly (monthly or each paycheck or whatever) because it will average out over time. one year you buy cheap stock, the next you buy expensive stock. the average is middle-price stock.
The IRA lets you take 10k out penalty free for a home purchase. Even beyond that it's 10% on top of your bracket--not the end of the world if you're desperate but not as cheap as other means.
I dont need the money now so I keep it in the IRA. But keep in mind that pulling money out of the market when you're scared it's going to crash is what makes it crash. 1929.... 1987.... when next?

I'm long in this market. The best part is that our annual profit sharing (which is dumped straight into our 401k) was posted just as the market was tanking. Basically a lot of cheap stock that I can wait for to come back up.

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

Not wishing to start and argument but what do you find wrong in in what I said that makes you so ill?

As far as James Cayne, the man has been working there since 1969 and has been the CEO for the past 16 years. He now serves as a "non-executive chairman". So, after 40 years at the same company he is now getting paid just to hang around. Seems like a pretty sweet deal to me! Would you not take it when you are 70 (or however old he is)?

Anyway, the sub prime mess we now have is the same as the mess created in '99 by people being over leveraged in stocks. People will always been greedy and that greed will eventually bite them in the ***. The extreme over valuation in the housing market was caused by greed. The value on houses is still great (I know mine is worth more now than it was 5 years ago) but it just couldn't live up to the media driven frenzy we had for the past few years.

All I know is that with my meager single income household we have been able to pay for a house, have a huge nest egg in investments and owe no one anything. We have 3 paid for cars and $0 in debt. I actually took a loan out of my 401K (@ 9.5% tax deferred interest paid back to myself) before the market dropped to pay the last $50K of it off. I should have it paid back in the next year and then will be able to max out both my 401K and Roth accounts. My wife wants a Lava Orange '05 MSM so that may set us back a year on paying the "house" off but things still look pretty damn good from where I am sitting.

Loki047

iTrader: (6)

I am not sure what your point is. I am not going to argue the reason we are in turmoil . But we are in turmoil. I am glad you are not affected (not really sure of the financial snap shot)

Saml01

iTrader: (9)

y8s, I completely agree with everything you say. There is no debating anything you said because I agree.

Especially the no load funds, I really want to invest and outperform the market though, who doesnt. Right now its impossible because the market is in the *******, but at one time it was very doable.

Based on your reasoning, I see that saving for the long term is important for you. Wife, family, kids etc. I am 23, still trying to figure out what I wanna do. I have some time to figure it out for sure.

Loki047

iTrader: (6)

thats a common mistake. THe more money you put in now saves you years in the future.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Who do you broker through? Comments on them?

drewbroo

iTrader: (2)

I'm my broker. I invest through USAA, and balance my principal with their precious medals fund. (Also have a bag o coins in a safety deposit box.) Monthly investing without penalties. Works out pretty good in the end. Only real stocks I play around with are penny stocks. Thats like playing the lotto though.

Quality Control Bot

iTrader: (3)

buy bullion

/end


*i was going to add firearms and food, but meh*

rmcelwee

iTrader: (1)

I agree. If your money doubles 7 years from now then it is really nice to have $100,000 in there now instead of $1,000. It is the upfront money that is the most important. That was the biggest mistake I made years ago (no one ever talked about the market back then).

Saml01

iTrader: (9)

***** please. 1 - 2 years wont do anything for me.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

No? starting your 401k when you're 21 vs. 23 could be worth hundreds of thousands depending on how much you put in.

but again, if you want to give that up...

Saml01

iTrader: (9)

My 401k is already getting its maximum contribution that is matched.

I was talking Roth IRA.

Loki047

iTrader: (6)

damn it are jewish people so ****** annoying*


*Ben is excluded from the above comment

y8s

iTrader: (8)

the devil has many names.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

That and CCs are also useful for buyer protection e.g., buying a clip from someone overseas and they send you a brick and a LOL@U email and then you call up CC company and protest charge and get your money back. Done tat several times. protest, not the brick.