curly

iTrader: (25)

Had to start a thread because I can't believe we have a thread discussing NASCAR and nothing about all the surprising things happening with F1 in the '09 season.

I used to cheer for Ferrari, but then two years ago hamilton started impressing me, now I have no idea who to cheer for. Who's everybodies favorite team/driver? Biggest surpise so far? Favorite race so far?

the_man

I haven't watched F1 in a loooooooooong time. When the majority of races were determined in the qualifying, I simply lost interest. I don't need to see parade laps.

That said, I think the cars are f'n cool. Well, I lost some interest in them when they started focusing so much on aero, but they're still f'n cool. I like to see what's involved, but the teams are so tight-lipped (rightfully so) and the budgets so high that I feel like I can't learn that much, either.

So I've become a very devoted fan of ALMS/Grand-Am and related series. Particularly endurance events. Not only do the cars have to be fast, they have to be reliable and serviceable. And the mechanics have to know their ****. Coming from FSAE, where less than half the teams typically complete the short-*** enduro that doesn't have to be run flat-out, the amount of engineering and thought that goes into endurance racing fascinates me.

That said, I do like NASCAR, it's amazing what a carb'd, pushrod V8 can be forced to do.

kotomile

iTrader: (24)

Well obviously Button's doing well..

I really wish they'd stop centering the races around the European viewing audience though. What's the point of being able to watch the race live (well, them being able to) if it means that it creates weird lighting (Australia) or gets rained out (China)? Seriously, run the damn races when it makes sense to WHERE YOU ARE damnit! Bahrain went well though. I kept hitting rewind on the DVR to read the script written in the runoff areas.

I think I like Redbull. Obviously Brawn (Braun?) is off to a better start but the Redbull team is starting to shine. Now that they've won a race and proven to themselves that it is possible, I bet they're going to be hungry.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Yeah, I'm kinda starting to cheer for Vettel. He's the young underdog, and without KERS, a super defuser, or an adjustable front wing, they're kicking ***.

Europe is their main market, so unfortunately that means they cater to them. Honestly Even when a race is in the middle of the day, I DVR it anyways to fast forward through commercials.

The man, you should start watching again. Yes the top 5 in qualifying generally end up being the top 5 at the end of the race, but there's a lot of action all the way through the pack, and races have been known to be won from the back. They also threw out last year's rule book and the cars are totally different this year. Huge testing and budget restrictions, they've taken all aero off the car except the front and rear wing, and they have some interesting technology like KERS (Kinetic energy recycling system), adjustable front wings, and of course slick tires are back.

For the last two years the champions have won by a margin of 1 point, so its pretty damn exciting towards the end of the race. Besides, Robert Plant and Eric Clapton would never been seen at a NASCAR race.

kotomile

iTrader: (24)

Yup, IIRC they are working on their own "super diffuser" now that they've been deemed legal, this is going to be interesting!

But yeah, I know Europe is their main market, but who wants to watch a race end with the cars sitting on the track in the rain? Is seeing that live better than a recording of an actual finish?

curly

iTrader: (25)

It wasn't really the time of day, but the time of year that was changed. They moved it earlier in the year to accommodate the Dubai race at the end of the year. It's going to be weird having another race after Brazil, but damn that track is going to be amazing.

spoolin2bars

iTrader: (1)

brawn is the ****. for a new team to do what they did is awesome. just like hamilton's rookie year (except for the last 3 races) but for you guys that don't know, ross brawn was schumacher's team director. if anyone knows how 2 win it's this guy. you could see that in this last race. vettel and trulli were the fastest, but it was brawn's pit strategy that put button on the top podium. except for F1 (because of the technology and speed) I like real production based cars best. rolex GT series, speed world challenge,koni challenge, tdi or mx-5 cup, scca runoffs and nasa championships. wrc rally was awesome till speed dropped them from the lineup a few years ago.

kotomile

iTrader: (24)

Yeah, but in that time of year, the rains come at a particular time and they should have taken that into consideration.

I thought the last race was in abu Dhabi?

curly

iTrader: (25)

You're correct, I merely typed the wrong country. That new track in Abu Dhabi looks amazing.

BTW, what did all those scrips at the Bahrain race say?

kotomile

iTrader: (24)

They said "al baHrain"

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

I can't believe a forum that's into such new technology like turbos, fuel injection, aerodynamics andcomputers would even think to discuss ASSCAR. Granted, I did get to go on a ride around Atlanta Motor Speedway in a old IROC car at 180mph.. and it def. opened my eyes to what the drivers do on the track, but the rest of it is what is so incredibly boring. It's an archaic "sport" that was once a technical proving ground for who would sell their new "developments" and go-fast parts the coming week. This is when NASCAR lived up to it's name. Now it's the exact opposite. Tube-frame cars that have NOTHING to do with the namesake sticker that's on the car, engine technology that's decades old, the cars have to fit the exact same template from nose to tail and hell.. their new "car of tomorrow" uses things that have been around for decades. Not to mention most of the fans remind me of Brick Tamland from Anchorman.. yelling at lound noises for no obvious reason...

Real NASCAR died back in the 90's. I think they need to overhaul the whole thing.. add fuel injection, make mfg. offer the like cars in the drivetrain that's the same as the race counterpart (aka RWD), let them have aero that they design....let's have some evolution.

I do ge ta bit of a laugh at the redundant oxymoronic term "NASCAR" though.



BTW... what did Dale Earnhart and Pink Floyd have in common?




Their biggest hit was The Wall

the_man

It's basically a spec series. Think more like Spec Miata- everybody has the same suspension, the same basic platform, the same this, the same that. The little tweaks here and there, and most of all, the driver, make all the difference. The performance of the actual racecar, whether it has 2 gears or 9, whether it has pushrods or DOHC, whether it has amazing or crappy aero, coilovers and double wishbones or a live axle, is largely irrelevant. The point is that components A, B, and C are held constant, the teams have to work within constraints D, E, and F, and the driver has to make the most of the whole mess.

That said, there are plenty of good arguments for standardizing on more modern technology (development, etc.) and for utilizing cars that are similar to roadgoing counterparts (forces manufacturers to build cool RWD cars), but at the end of the day, it's standardizing on SOMETHING that's more critical than what the actual standard is. And hey, seeing older technology being developed to new limits is still kind of cool. But I have some sick love of pushrods and carbs.

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

Hell, leave the traditional cars they way they are, but i'd like to see them maybe even try a developmental type series with newer technologies. But in the end, they are really going against what it was originally based on...which is sad...and I know the general Bug-guzzling redneck population that woos at NASCAR is there to cheer for a driver and to hear the cars and loves their own carb'ed V8 sitting at home...doesn't really give a **** about "technology" under the hoods of the cars. IMHO. Hell, they pretty much **** themselvs when Toyota was talking about entering and when JPM started driving. I **** you not, a neighbor of mine and I were discussing NASCAR and he said something like "now they have damn Mexicans driving in there"...... I laughed.

ZX-Tex

iTrader: (15)

Guess he did not know Montoya is from Columbia, not to mention the racist aspect. Pretty typical of a large part of the NASCAR demographic from what I have seen.

I am a big F1 fan myself, been following it for years. Last season was fantastic, coming down to the last corner on the last lap of the last race of the season, that is about as close as it gets. I was beside myself.

I think it will be a great season again, with Vettel and Button battling it out for the championship. And, looks like McLaren is picking things up again so that should keep things interesting. Even some of the in-race battles are getting better. Though what it lacks in passing, it makes up for in the heavy influence of strategy. Even the tactics are great; an F1 pit stop is a thing of beauty. And, look how fast they can change a damaged nose, even with adjustable aero. The nose trolley BMW used two races ago (IIRC) was slick.

Even though Brawn is a 'new team', the are most certainly not new personnel, just the remnants of the Honda team and Ross Brawn, who is of course one of the F1 Engineering Gods. I also think it is cool that Branson is sponsoring them.

As a ME I am fascinated by F1 technology. I also wish more of it was in the public domain, but even what is public, or older no-longer-significant technology, is really impressive. And even though the engines are restricted to smaller displacements, fewer cylinders, no turbos, RPM limits, etc. etc. the engineers still find ways to make the cars faster every year (lap times). Fascinating stuff.

I still think those 1.5L turbo 1200+ HP F1 qualifying engines (rumored to be up to 1500 HP) from the turbo era are among the most awesome racing hardware ever created. Think about getting 1200+ HP from your BP engine for even just 10 minutes. Damn...

the_man

Think about having the R&D budget of an F1 team to play with. Or even a fraction of the smallest F1 budget.

Rafa

iTrader: (22)

In for a surprise F1 champion this year.

I'll go out on a limb and say it's going to be Vettel and the Red Bull.

It's the perfect opportunity for the best damn engineer in F1 to take advantage and that one without a doubt is Adrian Newey.

The only "conventionally" designed car in the grid that could keep pace with the 3 teams that designed the different undertray in the first races of the season was Red Bull. It will not last past this year though.

ZX-Tex

iTrader: (15)

Yeah I wish. The staffing on the teams is insane. I remember hearing a few years ago during Schumacher's reign that Ferrari had ~800 people JUST working on the F1 program. That is nuts.

Hell they have 17 guys on a pit stop alone, right? 3 on each wheel, two on fuel, the crew chief (lollipop man), a guy holding the starter just in case the car stalls, and someone manning a fire extinguisher.

the_man

Well, Ferrari is in many ways a special case. Most companies are car companies that race to sell cars. Ferrari is a racing company that sells cars to finance racing efforts, and has been since its inception. Just think where we'd be if Alfa Romeo hadn't insulted Enzo Ferrari, prompting his leaving the company and subsequent personal drive to beat them in the racing world in every possible way. Kinda like if Lamborghini had stuck to making tractors.

curly

iTrader: (25)

17 minimum. They'll throw up to 24 guys out there, depending on whether or not they need ducts cleaned out or wing adjustments/changes. They pull in and I think "oh god, cluster ****" but damn it's a ballet, amazing work done in the pit stops.

Budgets are pretty insane. But now engines have to last three races, gearboxes four. Has anyone else noticed that teams are just taking the five grid spot penalty and switching engines and gearboxes out at will? Sure seems like it at least.

ZX-Tex

iTrader: (15)

I love it when they do a nose change, and a few guys just grab the car, pick up the front, and hold it.