Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

I once had a discussion in which it was determined that there was virtually no good reason to own a Vespa style scooter because a bicycle or car could always do the job as well or better.

blaen99

iTrader: (6)

Oh come on Scrappy, how are you going to look all hipster in a car?

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

You're Huffy is going to look funny with a turbo strapped to it

Edit: SWEET! My phone got me a warning!

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

Short distance, nice weather, no need for utility of any sort, want to save fuel? Bicycle.

Longer distance, inclement weather, want any degree of utility? Automobile.

A used Vespa is a few thousand USD. You can get a (not necessarily desireable) automobile for that, so I dismissed the cost issue. I bought two bicycles, brand new, for under $200.




Granted, if you just like scooters and tinkering (Ruckus enthusiasts?), that's fair.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

One of my good friends had a Vespa until he was hit in an accident and it was totaled. The check from insurance was enough for him to pick up a 90 miata. I laughed so much when he told me how he got for the vespa.

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

A scooter is the perfect solution in a city of 20+ million with the hills of San Francisco, and the size of Los Angeles times two, where gas is 10 dollars a gallon.

Commuting between two specific points (Göztepe and Etiler for those who know the place) in this city takes one hour and twenty minutes in a car, with over a quarter of a tank of gas, whereas only 12 minutes and a teaspoonful of gas are needed to cover the same distance on a scooter.

Scooters are allowed on emergency lanes at times when freeways look like gigantic parking lots.

A scooter is also the preferred means of transportation over a classic motorcycle where both legs dangle over the sides, ready to be pinched by other vehicles vying over the last inch of room on the said freeways. You have your legs within the frame rails of a scooter.

They also haul a whole lot more groceries compared to "motorcycles".

So there...

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

I'm still waiting for somebody to say something about my high idle post, btw.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

did you post datalogs and msq?

Godless Commie

iTrader: (2)

No, just anecdotal symptoms.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

freerice.com

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

In that case, I can answer your question definitively:

High idle is caused by having more air and fuel entering the engine than would be required to maintain a lower idle.

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

Fair play. My perspective is admittedly US-centric so I should probably add "... in the USA" and maybe even more specifically to "in Florida" because walking and mass transportation (e.g. subways/metros) are probably even more efficient and safe than bicycles or automobiles in some cities like NYC and possibly Boston.

Then again, I should probably just ignore your emerging market issues and refute your data point.

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

Godless Hipster:

y8s

iTrader: (8)

a 20 mile commute that can be done without freeways but on roads with speed limits up to 50 mph. Assume weather is only sometimes rainy (for which I already have a car).

It's tempting to scoot. A Ruckus can be modded. case in point: page one of "modded ruckus"

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

A car is superior in virtually every way except possibly some subjective fun factor and, I suppose, fuel economy. You will never have a scenario where you drive to work in the morning sunshine and get soaked by an unexpected evening shower or frozen by a cold snap.

The top speed of a stock Ruckus is like 30-40 MPH. You wouldn't even be able to do the speed limit on those 50 MPH roads. Don't be that guy.

Pen2_the_penguin

iTrader: (4)

i'd drive the **** out of a few scooters in that line up

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

More Ruckus bashing (for readers in developed nations):

"The low-30s top speed severely limit the practical turf a Ruckus is fit to prowl. A lagging throttle and meager acceleration complete the overall poor engine performance. And it only gets worse with the slightest elevation change, as top speeds drop to freakish levels – not even 20 mph in some instances. "

“After my first few rides I could hardly find the words to describe how disappointed I was,” says Motorcycle USA Dirt Bike editor JC Hilderbrand. “There’s simply no power. Big Red makes a 50cc, 4-stroke dirt bike that will stomp this thing in a drag, and they sell them to kids who aren’t old enough to read. Why would you strap a full-sized adult on it and throw them into city traffic?”

“The brakes are woefully underpowered, not that it matters since it barely gets up to residential speed limits before the next stop sign,” deems JC. “We haven’t formulated a way to accurately quantify the drag coefficient of sneakers, but I would estimate putting your feet down offers an additional 30-50% stopping power.”

“A complete lack of storage is the next major issue, and the ultimate deal-killer for me,” admits JC. “What’s the point in riding this thing around town if you still have to wear a backpack? The only ruckus this causes is with the owner who wishes they bought something else.”

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Riding a scooter, like commuting by bicycle, requires a greater degree of route planning than driving a car or riding a full-size motorcycle.

If your commute, for instance, absolutely requires highway travel, then a scooter would not be a good solution. Likewise if you must travel a significant distance across a two lane road with a high speed limit.

For many commuters, alternative routes exist which permit travel principally along secondary roads whose speed limit is compatible with a scooter. This would be especially true for people who, like myself, live and work in the same suburban neighborhood.


As to rain, sometimes it just happens. When I was in college, I commuted every day for two years on a 50cc Tomos and then a 250 Nighthawk. This was in central Florida, where it rains every single day during certain parts of year.

And yes, you get wet. Motorcycle gloves intended for all-weather use have a little visor-wiper attachment on the left thumb. It's literally a tiny little windshield wiper that you can use to clear your visor, and it's surprisingly effective.

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

Joe - You stated that you could commute on a scooter, making a bunch of compromises to accomodate it's inferior status relative to an automobile. In no way does this refute my earlier position:

"[...]that there was virtually no good reason to own a Vespa style scooter because a bicycle or car could always do the job as well or better."