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Old 07-20-2016, 05:31 PM   #26241
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Yesterday i downloaded visual studio and looked up a python guide that i'm following right now. So far i find it fun.
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Old 07-20-2016, 05:34 PM   #26242
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Skip visual studio. Start with a basic linux install. Get a C compiler. Learn to use a basic text editor (VIM/EMACS)

Learn C first.
Then try python.

Learning python first teaches a lot of bad habits that can't/shouldn't be done in other languages.

You will have a basic text editor with any platform. Visual studio you wont.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:11 PM   #26243
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Quote:
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Learn C first.
Then try python.

Learning python first teaches a lot of bad habits that can't/shouldn't be done in other languages.
Arguably the same is true of C, and it's better to start with something like Java or Pascal.

Or you could go to the other extreme and start with assembler by reading the coprocessor code for the megasquirt.

--Ian
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:13 PM   #26244
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You will go crazy trying to read megasquirt code.

Java is not bad to start with either. Depends on what you want to do. Java also has decent IDEs.

But IMO you shouldn't learn to code in an IDE, it will be a crutch and slow you down later on.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:18 PM   #26245
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You will go crazy trying to read megasquirt code.
The C is pretty ugly, although I've seen worse.

The HC11 assembly used to glue the C together isn't all that bad.

The XGATE coprocessor assembly, OTOH...

--Ian
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:26 PM   #26246
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Its not ugly per say. But is not well commented, and not well documented. Pretty standard for those projects though.
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:45 PM   #26247
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Its not ugly per say. But is not well commented, and not well documented. Pretty standard for those projects though.
It's ugly. It's got hard-coded constants, gotos used inappropriately, badly named variables, and an overall lack of structure or cohesion. Parts of it look like they were originally written in assembler and then ported to C without rethinking the logic structure. I agree it's not an unusual level of ugliness, but that doesn't mean it's not ugly.

--Ian
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:21 PM   #26248
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Why do people get so offended when you pass them on open backroads?

2 situations on different stretches of the same road, only my car and their car, speed limit 45mph.
Person 1: Creeps around the corners at 30mph, never crosses 40mph on the straight, so I pass. He blasts his horn at me.
Person 2: Actually reaches the speed limit, but then fluctuates between 40-45mph, so I pass. He immediately speeds up to me to 60mph until he's practically tailgating (about a car length behind when we're literally the only cars on this stretch of road).

Wtf people. Cool the egos and realize that you're going slow as **** and people want to get places quicker than you do. /advicetooffendeddrivers
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:14 PM   #26249
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The reason why i started with python and Visual Studio is because its easier so I can get my feet wet quicker. Once the semester starts i'll learn whatever they are teaching. The thing is i really dont want to join a course if i cant do it at all.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:21 PM   #26250
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I generally double down on my "offensive behavior" if someone honks their horn at me while I'm trying to overcome their own *******/offensive behavior. It often works as: I'm in slow condensed traffic and need to make a lane change, I turn on my signal and begin my lane change, about the time I'm crossing the white line someone comes from the opposite side of the road, cuts around behind me, and tries to stick their nose in the lane that I'm getting into. I complete my lane change, they have to slam on the brakes and get all honky, and so I stop in front of them. I wouldn't have given a **** if they hadn't honked at me as if I were in the wrong, I definitely saw them cut across two lanes to get into the lane that I was entering, I definitely know they are there, and I definitely don't care.

The similar situation occurs when someone from behind me decides to make an unsignaled lane change into my destination lane after I turn on my turn signal and commit to the lane change - generally, by the time I've signaled my lane change, I've already verified that the lane is clear and that you don't have your signal on behind me in order to get over. Give me a flash or two of the turn signal, and that lane would have been all yours; now you're behind me going slower than you were if you would have just been thoughtful of others and not decided to honk at my behavior correction.
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Old 07-21-2016, 09:13 AM   #26251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
The reason why i started with python and Visual Studio is because its easier so I can get my feet wet quicker. Once the semester starts i'll learn whatever they are teaching. The thing is i really dont want to join a course if i cant do it at all.
codeacedemy.org is where you want to go to learn basics. They have great online tutorials where you don't need to install anything to learn different languages. Realistically python is not a bad language to start with. It does have some negatives long term, but it can get you thinking like a developer. Depending on what you want to actually work on will determine where you want to spend time studying. Java/Scala/F#/Ruby if you want to do more web sided stuff. C/C++ are good if you want to do standalone apps. The real thing is once you learn one programming language, learning others becomes much easier.
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Old 07-21-2016, 09:38 AM   #26252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
The reason why i started with python and Visual Studio is because its easier so I can get my feet wet quicker.
That sounds like the argument that we used in the 80s for learning BASIC.

It nearly destroyed an entire generation of potential software designers.
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Old 07-21-2016, 09:42 AM   #26253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooger03 View Post
I generally double down on my "offensive behavior" if someone honks their horn at me while I'm trying to overcome their own *******/offensive behavior. It often works as: I'm in slow condensed traffic and need to make a lane change, I turn on my signal and begin my lane change, about the time I'm crossing the white line someone comes from the opposite side of the road, cuts around behind me, and tries to stick their nose in the lane that I'm getting into. I complete my lane change, they have to slam on the brakes and get all honky, and so I stop in front of them. I wouldn't have given a **** if they hadn't honked at me as if I were in the wrong, I definitely saw them cut across two lanes to get into the lane that I was entering, I definitely know they are there, and I definitely don't care.

The similar situation occurs when someone from behind me decides to make an unsignaled lane change into my destination lane after I turn on my turn signal and commit to the lane change - generally, by the time I've signaled my lane change, I've already verified that the lane is clear and that you don't have your signal on behind me in order to get over. Give me a flash or two of the turn signal, and that lane would have been all yours; now you're behind me going slower than you were if you would have just been thoughtful of others and not decided to honk at my behavior correction.
This type of behavior on the road is why I don't feel bad when something like this happens.

WATCH: Truck Runs Teens' Car Off Muskogee County Highway - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

It doesn't take 35+ seconds to complete a pass on the highway and move out of the way.
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:21 AM   #26254
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Learn how to program, setup, and operate a CNC machine and you will make a lot of money at some places.

It's difficult to find people who can do this, and who want to live in central NJ.
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:23 AM   #26255
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^^ or a 3d printer. uses G code as well.

I'm casually learning python. It's simple enough and practical. I learned FORTRAN in school so I wont ever have any bad programming habits.
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:25 AM   #26256
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I learned Fortran too, all the ME's had to take that. I never got around to learning anything else.
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:28 AM   #26257
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Google the average salary of a CNC Machinist and weep, is it really any wonder nobody wants to do CNC ****? It's a skilled trade, and it pays ******* garbage. Plumbers can and do make much more.

G-code is pretty much done anymore, too. It's conversational or CAM, in my experience. 99.9% of the dudes 3d printing stuff have no idea what G0 do, and it ain't pokemons.




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Old 07-21-2016, 10:31 AM   #26258
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First thing on google is average salary of 47k in the highest states. I think that's for a CNC operator. Meaning the guy who loads the machine, sets tool heights, pushes the buttons.

If you can program the machine, you'll easily make double that if you're good.

yah, plumbers will make more, but there was a discussion on 'programming'. not the same type of programming I know.
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:37 AM   #26259
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I call the first a button pusher, the latter is someone I'd expect to hand either a simple print for conversational programming, or pre-made code for something more complicated. The first shop I worked at, button pushers were paid $8.00/hr.

I had to quit my first job at a "real" job shop. I was doing all the mastercam, solidworks modeling, mazatrol programming, networking and backup, waterjet nesting, flat pattern making, earning 55k a year.

The dude had the ***** to tell me he thought I was already overpaid. Other jobs here in the Midwest aren't much better. Only reason I make anything reasonable now is I've found a few old customers who want to set up their own shops rather than deal with the shop I used to work for, so I'm doing that.

The only reason I continue is I'll probably be in a pretty swell place if the burger making machines ever come to fruition.
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Old 07-21-2016, 10:41 AM   #26260
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Interesting. I guess is this area then.
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