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Old 02-04-2014, 02:26 PM   #241
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I went vegan* last night:



Mushroom *****, over squash, with red pepper pesto.


*an egg was used as binder.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:10 PM   #242
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"No MSG"
Why?
Read up on it. Different people get different side effects.

I get dehydrated, headaches, and even twitches if I have allot. It's not good for you. Even Panda Express has banned its use.

Have you noticed feeling like you cant get enough water after eating Chinese? Or many Japanese foods for that matter. (Japan invented MSG, it's called Ajinomoto) Or mild headaches?... MSG for sure.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:14 PM   #243
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If you love Doritos... you love MSG.

I don't have a sensitivity to it. Unless you count enjoyment as a sensitivity. Mcdonalds used to use it too.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:35 PM   #244
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MSG is good. The Stigma is stupid.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:30 PM   #245
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MSG is good. The Stigma is stupid.
Try it yourself. Buy some MSG in powder form. Make a nice vegetable soup with plenty of this so called good MSG. Put extra because it's "good."

I bet you you will get sweats and headache. I would know as it's night and day form me.

Try it and get back to us.
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:22 PM   #246
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99% of people who say this have never done back to back blind testing.

This is exactly like all the bullshit about kids going hyper on sugar.

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Old 02-04-2014, 10:15 PM   #247
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Wikipedia entry on MSG cites several studies that were done that all fail to link any symptoms to consumption.

I hear vaccines cause autism because a playboy bunny said so.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:34 PM   #248
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Quote:
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Read up on it. Different people get different side effects.
After you posted your last response, I did go and do quite a bit of reading up on the subject.

Aside from a few blog entries which I would charitably describe as hysterical and ill-informed, pretty much all of the "hard" data (eg: peer-reviewed medical and academic journals), tend to fall into one of two schools of thought:

1: That the myth of MSG having any harmful effects at all is just that, a myth, and that whatever physical ailments might manifest themselves in a person who has just consumed a cheap Chinese meal tend to fall along a spectrum which ranges from psychosomatic at one end, to "you dummy, you just ate a huge plate of salty, sugary, carb-laden, fried food. What do you expect?" at the other.

2: An acknowledgement that some or all of the symptoms which you describe below do in fact occur, but only in a small percentage of the population, and that the effects of the consumption of large amounts of MSG tend to be acute in nature (eg: occurring quickly after consumption and later dissipating completely with no lasting ill-effect) rather than chronic (having long-term health consequences.)


Your admonition wasn't really clear on the nature of your objection to MSG, and I was much more curious to learn of the basis for your objection to it than to simply hear a list of commonly-alleged symptoms.


For instance, one fairly recent study conducted by the Lab de Desarrollo-Envejecimiento, Enfermedades Neurodegenerativas in Guadalajara, Mexico demonstrated a strong positive correlation between high doses of MSG and neural necrosis in lab rats. The problem here is that this particular study involved the injection of MSG directly into the brain, completely bypassing the metabolic decomposition which naturally occurs in the gastric tract.


I have also read a few non-scientific papers which claim to observe a link between MSG intake and obesity as a function of MSG causing disorders related to insulin production in the body (example). Well, I've disproven this to my own satisfaction simply by performing blood glucose tests before and after consuming a cheap Chinese meal containing a large amount of MSG. This is nothing more than mistaken causality. Of course there's a correlation between obesity and the consumption of large amounts of MSG. By definition, a majority of people who are regularly consuming large amounts of MSG are also consuming large amounts of calories!
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:34 PM   #249
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I get dehydrated, headaches, and even twitches if I have allot.
I don't doubt that you do. However this does not justify an unqualified blanket statement that "MSG is bad."

There are many different foods and chemicals to which some small percentage of the populace react adversely. Some people are lactose-intolerant. Some are allergic to shellfish. Or peanuts. Or eggs. Or strawberries. Or the pollen of the oak tree.

Personally, I am severely allergic to cats (specifically, the protein Fel-d-1 which is present in their saliva and sebaceous glands.) That doesn't mean that cats are evil and should be avoided, merely that I, along with a small minority of the population, cannot tolerate prolonged exposure to them.

My own mother experiences a severe dermal reaction to prolonged contact with nickel-bearing metal alloys such as stainless steel, meaning that she cannot wear most wristwatches, as they tend to have stainless backplates. But I would never post a blanket statement that "stainless steel is bad for you and you must avoid contact with it!"


Just because a small number of people react adversely to exposure to a certain substance does not in any way justify claims that said substance is "bad" in a broad context.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:35 PM   #250
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Have you noticed feeling like you cant get enough water after eating Chinese? Or many Japanese foods for that matter. (Japan invented MSG, it's called Ajinomoto) Or mild headaches?... MSG for sure.
No, I have not noticed these things. I can wolf down a plate of the cheapest late-night midtown Chinese takeout imaginable (and often have in the past), and I suffer from none of the effects which you describe above.

By the same token, I assume that you can cuddle with a kitty without your eyes watering and your skin itching.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:54 AM   #251
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I've read a study or two couple years ago but I have enough experience for me to decide on my own.

I never "knew" about MSG until a few years ago. When I first started using it, I would always make a huge pot veggie soup for me and friends with MSG. I would put in allot because it made it taste good. I always wondered why I would sweat so much and have headaches and be so damn thirsty after a huge bowl of soup. It might be unbelievable but I actually thought that all the veggies was some how "clearing" my system up but it was not that, it was the MSG. I also have friends who have this same issue of dehydration and or headaches. I and friends would know since we do endurance workouts too, we are pretty in tune with our bodies.

I don't need a study to tell me what MSG is doing to me. Perhaps some are more susceptible to the effects but maybe the amount you are eating is small enough where you don't really notice the effects. Or maybe your local chinese place doesn't use MSG at all. You should give them a call and ask.

Also, I still recommend that you do a test yourself. Try buy some MSG and eat whatever amount you think is still safe and see what happens. I do commend you for your determination to find truth.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:55 AM   #252
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Quote:
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Try it yourself. Buy some MSG in powder form. Make a nice vegetable soup with plenty of this so called good MSG. Put extra because it's "good."
I bet what happens is I have an incredible tasting soup because it's a much better flavor booster than salt.

I'm actually making chicken soup tonight--true story.


Quote:
I bet you you will get sweats and headache. I would know as it's night and day form me.
I've seen tests done in this manner. A group of people were served the same dish. Half got it with MSG, the other half salt.

They were told after consumption and asked if they felt any side effects after time had elapsed. More people from the group that consumed salt complained of all the symptoms that MSG causes...the test wasn't scientific, but it showed the power of suggestion once they were told they might have consumed MSG.

If you have a sensitivity to it, not everyone else in the world does. That's like saying cats are universally bad and should be avoided because they cause a histamatic reaction to some inferior humans. Or that we should all eat gluten free because some vegan lesbian hipster who uses abortion as birth control thinks it's a good idea that everyone live exactly like her while telling everyone to be individuals and have their own identity and uniqueness.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:38 PM   #253
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I'm actually making chicken soup tonight--true story.
How did it go and exactly how much MSG did you use?

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Or that we should all eat gluten free because some vegan lesbian hipster who uses abortion as birth control thinks it's a good idea that everyone live exactly like her while telling everyone to be individuals and have their own identity and uniqueness.
Oooookay.... LOL

I don't think people who are pro choice on abortion believe everyone should do it. I think it's about choice. Also, society decides morals and ethics.

While I do eat meat, I could say that our individual freedom of eating meat is contributing immensely to suffering and abuse of animals and destroying this planet due to the environmental impact of animal food production which means that your selfish idea of individual freedom is taking away from the livelihoods of all those around the world who cannot afford to deal with climate change and may lose everything they have and or die. To be honest, there is quite a strong case to stop eating meat all together if not at least creating a maximum intake per person for it. Not that I think it is feasible.

If I may also just add, I actually don't think we will stop climate change so although reducing pollution is very important, I think spending allot of energy on bringing up the living standards of those all over the world will be the best way to mitigate the impacts of climate change.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:24 PM   #254
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Stepped on the scale this morning and it read 199.6. That's a milestone for me, and it reinforces my conviction that I've made the right decision to shift from a high-calorie / low-carb diet towards one favoring more moderate caloric intake without being too particular about the specific form that those calories take (eg: not shunning processed grains, starches and sugars entirely.) That's roughly 17 lbs of mostly fat gone in exactly one month to the day since I started this test.


And I'm not kidding about this being a Chinese Takeout diet. With the exception of those weekend evenings spent up in the mountains of late, my dinners have been consisting of nothing but dishes from Precious, such as scallops with broccoli & bean sprouts in hot garlic sauce, with a generous pile of steamed brown rice:




I'd previously claimed that once I got below 200 I was going to give the high-fat / low-carb plan another try, but I'm going to stick with this scheme for a while longer and see where it goes. I'm still above the theoretical "ideal" weight for my height and build I'm getting good results without feeling like I'm depriving myself of anything, and my overall health / energy also seems to be doing just fine.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:08 PM   #255
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That's roughly 17 lbs of mostly fat gone
are you measuring your body fat %?
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:40 PM   #256
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are you measuring your body fat %?
No, just making subjective estimates based upon pants fit, visual observation, and the fact that my physical strength is not decreasing.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:42 PM   #257
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Joe Perez, the human DEXA scanner.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:15 PM   #258
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I use the depth of my belly button as a gauge...true story.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:35 PM   #259
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No, just making subjective estimates based upon pants fit, visual observation, and the fact that my physical strength is not decreasing.
Sounds scientifish. Just get the damn scale I linked on amazon. At least it will give you consistenly wrong numbers. FWIW I am at 20% BF. I'd like to be at fifteen. I have a 2.5 pack.

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Joe Perez, the human DEXA scanner.
I'd trust his pincers to be calibrated within a few ten thou.

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I use the depth of my belly button as a gauge...true story.
You can weigh the lint and increase accuracy.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:08 PM   #260
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Sounds scientifish. Just get the damn scale I linked on amazon. At least it will give you consistenly wrong numbers.
Huh? If you mean the one in post #167, I'm not sure I see the point. It doesn't really look much different from the one I use right now.


EDIT: I didn't mean for that to sound snide- if I'm missing something, please educate me.

Last edited by Joe Perez; 02-06-2014 at 10:23 PM.
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