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Old 10-04-2013, 01:17 PM   #21
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Oh, and beer as well. Now that I think about it, claiming that grains, a product of beer, are toxic is blasphemy and I proclaim jihad on anyone who discounts the nutritional efficacy of frosted barley pop.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:17 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
It can take more than a week for your body to adjust to the new energy sources (and to clean out toxins and adjust regulatory processes). Most people find improved skin to be a benefit of cutting out inflammatory grains and sugars, since most skin conditions are inflammatory in nature.

This is a weird post that I've seen you make before. I understand that you get off from being the skeptical contrarian, but just go read some of the research. It's easily available. There's tons of new research over the last 20-30 years demonstrating the role of inflammation in the vast majority of diseases (especially autoimmune disorders) as well as the inflammatory nature of most grains and sugars.
The problem I have with the inflammation thing is that there are definitely foods that cause inflammation and inflammation is related to heart disease, but at the same time I'm not seeing a firm body of scientific evidence implicating whole grains are the culprit.

You've got articles like this that show whole grains being good for you, but refined grains being bad.

Whole and Refined Grain Intakes Are Related to Inflammatory Protein Concentrations in Human Plasma

Or this where whole grains are shown to have no real negative effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17391554

There was a pretty interesting article on sugar in the NY Times magazine a few years ago that indicated there are a large body of scientists that think sugar is the culprit in a wide variety of ailments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/ma...anted=all&_r=0
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:21 PM   #23
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There is a chocolate-pecan macaroon in my future.
DON'T DO IT!!! Put down the macaroon, we value your life here.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:27 PM   #24
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DON'T DO IT!!! Put down the macaroon, we value your life here.
Grain is murder.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:28 PM   #25
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Non-starchy veggies are carbs too.
It's starch that's bad, not carbs.
To be more specific, high glycemic carbs (e.g. starch and sugar), are bad - i.e, how much they spike your blood sugar.

The blood sugar spikey effect of high glycemic carbs depends on other factors, - amount of starch, and amount of fat consumed in the same meal.

Individuals also vary in how many decades they can eat a high-starch diet before developing metabolic syndrome (one symptom of which, is visceral belly fat). Beer belly, anyone? "Soda belly" is the same thing.

Individuals also vary in how long they can eat a lot of gluten before suffering intestinal damage from it. Some people are very sensitive, and perhaps some can take modest amounts forever.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:35 PM   #26
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Inflammation does not equal edema, which I believe is the "heart" issue caused by "inflammation" you're referring to. It's a total body issue obviously, involving the kidneys, heart, lungs, etc, but yes, heart is the common failure leading to an over abundance of water in the body.

I participate as much as possible in a low carb diet, staying mostly away from candy, sugar, and pasta. That's about all I've changed. Lost 20 lbs that way with little exercise, which I desperately need to change.

And if I lived where I do and took beer out of my diet I would most likely be hung. There's a 24 pack from Costco in the fridge that's half gone after I bought it a week and a half ago.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:39 PM   #27
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Gran and sugar is toxic?
my diet consists mainly of grains and sugar. I'm still breathing.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:40 PM   #28
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I like professional cycling related nutrition stuff.
How to Eat Like a Tour de France Pro | Cyclists International
"Here, eat this porridge and eggs, here eat this snack, ride this sex-pantehr $10k bike and floss, drink a tiny cola and eat more fatty awesomeness, urinate off the bike at speed, win, eat all this fruit, get a rub down, shave your legs with other men, spacedock."
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:41 PM   #29
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Sugar and starch are not = energy. You can surely turn fat into energy.
The liver can convert fat into glucose. The brain functions well on ketones (but getting used to it can be hellish).

However AFAIK only carbs (such as veggies) can be converted into glycogen, which is depleted during heavy exercise. Your glycogen reserves are finite. You only need your calories in the form of carbs (e.g. veggies) to fill your glycogen reserves. And the best time to have a lot of carbs is after a workout. If you eat too much high-glycemic carbs (even after a workout), e.g. bread, your blood sugar will still spike very high and the blood sugar will still go into your fat cells. But yes, after exercise, you can tolerate more high-glycemic carbs. Not before. At least that's what I found testing blood sugar on myself.

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 10-04-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:41 PM   #30
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And if I lived where I do and took beer out of my diet I would most likely be hung. There's a 24 pack from Costco in the fridge that's half gone after I bought it a week and a half ago.
I bet you're hung.


I can't believe all this bullshit even remotely suggesting we eliminate beer from our diets.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:41 PM   #31
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my diet consists mainly of grains and sugar. I'm still breathing.
Keep at it for 20 more years and let's see how bad your metabolic syndrome is.

P.S. next time you go for a blood test, let's see what your A1c and fasting insulin are. They are excellent proxies for measuring metabolic syndrome.

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 10-04-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:44 PM   #32
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I can't believe all this bullshit even remotely suggesting we eliminate beer from our diets.
If you don't want to eliminate (moderate) beer consumption then don't. But eliminate your other grains instead, and eat fat before drinking beer, and you will be healthier in the long run.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #33
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Grains contain "anti-nutrients". Ironically white rice may be better than brown rice in this regard, as long as not enough is consumed to cause a large blood sugar spike:

Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #34
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Some info on whole grains.

Whole-Grain Foods Do Not Affect Insulin Sensitivity or Markers of Lipid Peroxidation and Inflammation in Healthy, Moderately Overweight Subjects

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con.../1522.full.pdf

Information on lectin (the anti-nutrient in many grains, including wheat):

Insulin-Like Activity of Concanavalin A and Wheat Germ Agglutinin

Do dietary lectins cause disease?

BMC Endocrine Disorders | Full text | Agrarian diet and diseases of affluence - Do evolutionary novel dietary lectins cause leptin resistance?


Research on gluten is advancing by leaps and bounds right now. Not only is the commonly thrown-around "1%" number probably quite a bit lower than the reality, because of how celiac disease is tested for in the US (hint: in western European nations with different testing protocols, celiac disease shows up in much higher percentages), but that's only referring to full-blown celiacs -- not to gluten sensitivity, which is a gamut of symptoms related to the inflammatory effects of wheat gluten. Estimates are hard to come by right now, but many researchers are saying that it's not unlikely that at least 25-33% of the population has some degree of mild to moderate gluten sensitivity.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #35
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Sugar and starch are not = energy.
The liver can convert fat into glucose. The brain functions well on ketones (but getting used to it can be hellish).

However AFAIK only carbs (such as veggies) can be converted into glycogen, which is depleted during exercise. Your glycogen reserves are finite. You only need your calories in the form of carbs (e.g. veggies) to fill your glycogen reserves. And the best time to have a lot of carbs is after a workout. If you eat too much high-glycemic carbs (even after a workout), e.g. bread, your blood sugar will still spike very high and the blood sugar will go into your fat cells.
Why are you not recommending carbs before, during, and after exercise? If I didn't eat fruit and grain before and during a bike ride I would fall over dead, known as "bonking".

Also, why do all these pro cyclist nutrionist allow or even promote a daily beer after a ride? I look at the diets of these apex athletes, with obscenely high fitness levels, and they're all eating grain and drinking beer.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #36
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Grains contain "anti-nutrients". Ironically white rice may be better than brown rice in this regard, as long as not enough is consumed to cause a large blood sugar spike:

Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple
I make "bacon cakes" for bike rides which consist of jasmine rice, chopped-up maple bacon, all bound together with a raw egg. I cut them into 1" cubes and eat 3 of them on 4+ hour rides. It's the only kind of acceptable bacon candy.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #37
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Keep at it for 20 more years and let's see how bad your metabolic syndrome is.
Surge for breakfast.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #38
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My ideal meal plan that I sometimes skip on because I'm busy or run out of time:

1st meal: 5-6 eggs, protein shake, maybe a greek yogurt
2nd meal: a ham sandwich, whole grain bread, nuts or other snack.
3rd meal: chicken breast and golden rice (if im at work I have no choice but to get fast food. no such thing as good fast food but I try to get something relatively full of protein)
4th meal: protein shake and anything I can find at this point
5th meal(post workout): small snack, greek yogurt

I have a feeling I'm trying to do the opposite of what you guys are doing.

also carbs = energy, if i hit the gym with minimal carbs i burn out really quickly.
so yes i eat a lot of carbs
Too many meals.
Too few veggies.
Too much starch and grains.

You are also a sugar not a fat burner. If you train your body to be a fat burner you won't feel the need to eat more than 3x a day despite workouts. It takes 4-6 hours after a meal for your insulin to come back down to baseline. If you eat before then your body will preferentially keep and not burn its bodyfat reserves.
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Old 10-04-2013, 01:58 PM   #39
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Estimates are hard to come by right now, but many researchers are saying that it's not unlikely that at least 25-33% of the population has some degree of mild to moderate gluten sensitivity.
What are the symptoms and health risks associated with mild or moderate gluten sensitivity?
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:01 PM   #40
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Why are you not recommending carbs before, during, and after exercise? If I didn't eat fruit and grain before and during a bike ride I would fall over dead, known as "bonking".

Also, why do all these pro cyclist nutrionist allow or even promote a daily beer after a ride? I look at the diets of these apex athletes, with obscenely high fitness levels, and they're all eating grain and drinking beer.
I don't know much about endurance athletes' requirements, but I will guess that you want to top up the glycogen tank before and after a big workout. With the caveat that you don't cause a large blood sugar spike by having too much high-glycemic carbs.
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