The first is to say that I am actually a frequent lurker at Ecomodder.com, and that forum has a large contingent of HHO types. They all basically sound like you; making a lot of unsubstantiated claims and spouting pseudo-science. None of them actually seem to have any hard data to point to.
Frequently, they will cite credible references from scholarly journals (SAE, NACA, etc) which investigate the use of hydrogen as a supplemental fuel in gasoline engines, however in doing so, these folks are all committing the same basic fallacy: they are completely ignoring the problem of scale.
For instance, to quote from the abstract of one source which I found being used as a reference:
added hydrogen in percentages as low as 5-10% percent of the hydrocarbon fuel can reduce that hydrocarbon fuel consumption.
First off, note the weasel words. "As low as..." and "can reduce..." The folks selling bilge fans on eBay disguised as electric superchargers use the same sort of language.
But we'll handwave over that and look at the math instead. 5-10% seems pretty plausible, until you go back and do the calculations as I did earlier. Then you see that 2 liters/min of gaseous HHO at atmospheric pressure yields H2 at a ratio of 0.0012% of the fossil-fuel input for a sedan cruising at 65 MPH.
You'd need 8,333 of those generators to get to 10%.
The second is that I can't even begin to describe how hilarious I find this suggestion. This is like the farmer who wishes to better secure his henhouse hiring the services of Fox Security Inc.
Originally Posted by golftdibrad
lets back this up to a second. These guys are trying to replicate Smokey Yunick's fiero.
In other words, the hot vapor engine's magic had nothing to do with hot vapor.
You're talking about the Mr. Fusion guy, right?
I'll admit that I'm not well-versed in Yunick's work on the Fiero in question. I have just done a bit of light googling, and I'm inclined to agree with you here.
When you were a kid, did you ever read the story of Soup from a Stone? It's an old fable about a guy who puts a pot of water over a fire, and drops a stone into it, claiming that this will make a delicious soup, but that it still needs "a few garnishes." He persuades passers-by to give him a carrot or a bit of celery, or whatever (purely as garnish, mind you), until he has collected enough ingredients to make actual soup.
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie
I dont see what there is to argue about triple88a, It takes electricity to make the hydrogen, and that electricity is going to have to come from somewhere.
I dont see how some small gain in *insert weird pseudo science here* is going to make up for an added load on the alternator.
Actually, the load on the alternator is going to be pretty light for any reasonably-sized contraption. A box such as this really isn't going to make a measurable difference either positive or negative.
If it could, somebody with a strong financial interest in saving gas would already be doing it.
After looking into the energy density of hydrogen, how it has to be stored, and how it is consumed in a regular IC engine, I concluded that it was a retarded idea. The volume required for any real distance of a typical large, Americana automobile was ridiculous, even at SCUBA tank pressures (>3000 psi).
That has been the main problem so far with running pure oxygen. We have not found a way to store it. imagine an accident where the crazy high pressures scuba tank gets damaged.. you have either a bomb or a missile.
The ordinary combustion engine is garbage. If you want to talk about pure hydrogen vehicles a better method is using a fuel cell to get electricity out to run an electric motor. You'll end up with total vehicle efficiency in the 50%.
Don't get me wrong, that car SCOOTS. I mean, it shoots out of the hole pretty damn quick.
Maybe I should re-phrase: You can you watch drag-racing videos? To me; it's like watching an autox video of the E-mod rotary powered spridget. Very cool, but on video it doesn't do a whole lot for me.
Ah, that makes more sense. I guess it's like people who love watching golf/ meanwhile I'd rather carve pictures of dicks into my eyeballs with a toothpick. Honestly, I can hardly watch my own autox vids I like watching drag racing and street racing, though.