bahurd

iTrader: (8)

I seem to be what you'd refer to as an 'early adopter' but what that really means is I spend way too much money on trying to find that magic solution.

I've owned an android tablet since Acer introduced in 2010 (10") and still use it today but less and less. It's rooted and running on android V4.3 with no issues. My primary use is for PDF catalogs and PDF drawings (I output from AutoCAD). I take the time to bookmark i.e. index all of my PDF files to make them easier to use.

I moved on to the Nexus 7 2012 because I wanted a smaller screen size and lighter weight to keep in a bag while I'm in customer sites (industrial locations). The Nexus is a nice machine, light in weight and a super sharp screen but not as nice as the Kindle 8 HDX.

I've stuck with Android because my phone is Android and I'm comfortable with it.

Frankly, I'm torn between big screen and lighter weight though... I'd prefer the 8" screen of the Kindle but not really sure if I want to stay in the 'droid camp. I may jump to the new iPad Air (9.7") with LTE because I find myself growing impatient whenever I turn on my phone hotspot..

I would say, if your into Kindle books and just want it to keep your PDF collection than I'd opt to the Kindle 8 HDX without hesitation. REALLY nice screen and perfect form factor and the Kindle experience you've grown accustomed to.

First, I'll comment on Windows 8 Pro because I actually own the Samsung APTIV 500PC which is a 10" touch screen tablet/laptop unit and have used it now in excess of 14 months.

As a laptop it's fairly nice but not the most powerful (fast). Cad work brings it to it's knees as you'd expect from the hardware list but running Office programs, from the desktop it's more than adequate and 14+ hours of battery is killer (try being in the middle of a steel mill and finding power...).

As a touch interface, Windows 8 is pathetic and the Metro program offering is also pathetic (especially working with a properly indexed PDF file). The system doesn't know what it wants to be.... touch or desktop. I can tell you working with MS Office with a touchscreen is a recipe for frustration and you'll want to find the programmer and kill him/her after an hour or less.

Now, Dropbox is a killer piece of software! I have everything I own setup with it and pretty much run my business on it (yep, scary I know). Synchronizing is pretty painless on anything you want to run it on.

y8s

iTrader: (8)

speaking from an application standpoint, not a size standpoint:

based on your current android usage, the handiness of instant gratification of transferring data (contacts, email, apps) over to a new device would be pretty compelling.

there are plenty of officey apps that you can get as well. many free. android opens PDF files just as you'd expect it to and you can simulate any of these tasks on your phone right now.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I am not locked into Amazon's DRM system. I use a Kindle as an e-reader, however my content is not tied to that platform. It's all completely portable, so this, this is not a concern. In fact, from what I have read I am highly disinclined to want a Kindle Fire.



Speed isn't really a concern. And I will never try to run ACAD on it- that's what my laptop is for. Insofar as "real" productivity apps are concerned, I really just need to be able to access typical MS Office sort of data- Word a& Excel.



This is one factor that biases me towards the Android / iOS camp- even though it locks you into a small subset of applications, you have the advantage that said applications were designed from the ground up to work in a touch-based environment.

As someone who remembers the light-pen fad of the 1980s, I can attest that there is value in this.


It's not scary at all. I have DropBox installed on every Windows device I use, including most of my PCs at work. I use it to keep project files and databases automagically synced between all machines, so that I don't have to expose my home network (which is fairly secure) to the corporate VPN (which is not.)




This is good to know.

In particular, having the ability to easily open and navigate PDFs.

One thing I've never really been comfortable with is nagivating the filesystem in an Android device. They don't exactly make it easy, preferring instead to abstract everything into galleries and whatnot. So, inasmuch as getting data files into and out the machine (be they office docs or PDFs or whatever), how have you found that experience to be?

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

Install ES File Explorer. It lets you explore all the files and programs on your Android device using a similar interface to what you'd find on your windows machine.

Free app. Been using it for a couple years and love it.

Edit: Yes you can do office apps on Android as well. I have used several of those programs such as Polaris office and the entire DocsToGo set. They all work OK... not particularly well, but they will get you by, particularly for viewing documents. Editing any document in a touch-navigated environment is going to be a PITA no matter what though.

You'll kinda have to decide what's more important to you. Android will do everything you've described, and do it well. However, if you think you'll want to play with more x86 programs (and you do seem so inclined), then the x86 machine will be worth it.

There aren't a lot of 8" Android devices out there that I would personally consider. Dell just came out with the Venue 8 running Android, and Samsung has their Galaxy Tab 8 (blech).

In Android tablets (and the world of Android, in particular) I feel like Nexus devices provide the best experience.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

I tend to open stuff directly from Dropbox and I setup that to sync certain directories/folders so the files are on the machine.

If I setup specific folders on the device (yes, the Android filesystem or lack thereof is archaic but still better than ios) then I know they're in a specific place but for me Dropbox is fine. There are some good file managers for Android.

Google's Quickoffice is nice but for me, I need to be able to run fairly macro-centric excel spreadsheets that I use for process simulation stuff and so I doubt I'll be able to dump my laptop anytime soon.

What was the aversion to the Kindle Fire? I'm curious only because I really thought about going to the HDX for the 8" format.

thenuge26

iTrader: (2)

Kindle Fire: No Google apps, no care.

I'm sure you could hack them on there in some way, but I'd rather not be bothered when there are options like the Nexus 7 which are just as good if not better.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I installed a similar app on my phone (Galaxy S4), although I haven't really spent much time playing with it.

And I'm not married to the idea of using such an app to explore the filesystem directly, provided that applications such as Office (or whatever Office-like thing I use) have a reasonably useful concept of "Open From..." and "Save As..."




I actually have very little interest in running true x86 apps. If anything, I'd prefer to AVOID them, at least for now, since I know that apps designed specifically for Android / iOS will be much better refined inasmuch as their integration with the concept of touch / multitouch as opposed to mouse. I used to use stylus-based tablets (Fujitsu Stylistic series) running Win2k / XP to do all of my Greddy / Megasquirt tuning on, and it was pretty awful sometimes.




And I'm sure that a 10" machine would also be just fine. My step-father recently got a 10.6" Surface 2, and it didn't feel unreasonably large. It was actually a very good size and form-factor.

Why the poo-poo on the Galaxy Tab? If it's anything at all like the Galaxy S4, then it's one of the best devices in its class.




Ah, so, in the Android version, Dropbox is an app which provides a sort of folder-based presentation of files? '

I've only ever experienced Dropbox within the Win XP / 7 environment, where it's basically just a TSR that sits in the background synchronizing directories, but leaves the actual presentation of the files up to the OS's built-in interface.



I occasionally build extremely large formulas, but I don't ever do macros. The stuff I use Excel for is actually pretty mundane and traditional. If anything, I preferred the Excel of 20 years ago, for its streamlined simplicity. There's way too much crap in there now that I never use, and since the Ribbon interface, it consumes way too much real-estate.


I've just read a lot of gripes that it uses a horribly non-standard implementation of the OS, does not natively work with the traditional Google Play store (requiring rooting and hacking to get this, and I absolutely am done with rooting and hacking my computers- gave that up in the 90s), and in general is just too proprietary and locked-down.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

I'd recommend installing that exact app. There are a lot of file managers and I like ES the best by far.


makes sense. I thought you'd probably end up wanting to tinker with it, but it sounds like you're electronically tinkered out based on your comment below, so in that case Android makes more and more sense.


If you like the 10" form factor then there are lots of great options. To me they're too big, but they are awfully nice when viewing docs and PDFs. If it's manageable to you then I'd definitely suggest going that way.

A secondary reason for this is that you could purchase an older tablet (acer A500, original Sony thing, lenovo's first, FIRST-GEN ASUS TRANSFORMER TAB) and you'd save a ton of money. You can buy most of those used in nice shape for around $150.

It's NOT. it uses a substandard screen, an antiquated processor, is cheaply built and is based on Samsung's awful UI (My opinion of course, and if you're used to your S4 and like it then you may like the tab 8). I feel they are very overpriced for what you're getting, inside and out.

Samsung is relying on people seeing the Galaxy name, thinking "Oh, the Galaxy S phones are pretty awesome, this must be awesome too" PLUNK, pay $100 too much for a substandard device.


I'm with you 100% here. The 8" Kindle Fire is a beautiful device, well built, comfortable, very affordable. If all you're going to do is e-reading, PDFs and web browsing, along with your document requirements, it will do everything JUST FINE. You have access to the Amazon App Store which, while not as good or comprehensive as the Google Play store, carries a ton of apps. It would do everything you want it to do.

But you won't really recognize Android on it. If that bothers you, look elsewhere. It would fulfill your aforementioned purposes, however.

NiklasFalk

iTrader: (1)

I was really surprised to be able to play mkv from my NAS through ES without hiccups. No need for file transfer until I want to watch on the go.

Nexus 7 2013 is a pretty nice device btw (really good speakers). But it has only been on couch duty so far.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, ES is a great app.

And if you want the best small tablet and don't need expandable storage, the Nexus 7 2013 is really a great option. Beautiful, solid, fast, sharp, light, thin, and affordable device.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

I have a Nexus 7 2012 and while I do like it I find the screen a bit on the small size for my need to view a 468 page bookmarked PDF file which is really why I need to carry it. I have about 15-20 files I have the refer to during the day.

While I've taken the time to properly bookmark and index the files the bigger screen just works better.

And while I've not had the need to expand the memory, I bought the 32 gig version anyway.

Even though I've been a pretty loyal Android user I'll likely move to the ipad for my new tablet. I've seen some really nice business oriented apps that likely will never make it to android.

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

iPad definitely has some great apps.

I agree with you on the 7" screen size. IMO it's great for people who don't own a smartphone or own a smaller smartphone. But my smartphone has a nearly 5" screen. the extra size just isn't worth carrying an extra device to me, not to mention the cost.

I feel like the 8" screen size does make it worth it, while still being very portable.

But 10" is very very useful and is still portable enough for many (like yourself).

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

Well, it's probably most accurate to say that I recognize a separation between **** that I like to tinker with and **** that I just want to work properly without having to think about it.

Computers, cell-phones and the like all fall into the latter category. Yes, twenty years ago I was the kind of guy who would literally hack into his Amiga 500 with a soldering iron and x-acto knife in order to double the RAM from 512k to 1MB (not exaggerating), but today, I just want my electronic devices to work seamlessly without my having to think about it, and I am willing and able to pay for this privilege. No rooting, no jailbreaking, etc.

The exception here, of course, is media piracy. I would happily pay for media (not just video, but also e-books), however I refuse to do so when the only pay models which exist are either horribly limited in selection (Hulu, Netflix, etc), of extremely poor quality (Hulu, Netflix, etc), or are locked down in a draconian manner which unacceptably hampers my portability and data security (Amazon, Microsoft Store, etc.)




Well, I like that I can literally slip my Kindle into the front pocket of my jeans. That's handy when moving through Airspace. But the reality of the situation is that I spend a lot less time flying these days, and a lot more time on the silver rails, where things like TSA security and cattle-like boarding queues aren't relevant concepts.

I haven't gone and played with them yet, but assuming that a "10 inch" tablet is appx 20% smaller than the display on this Latitude E4200 that I'm typing this on, that would be just about perfect for the applications I envision. I am leaning very strongly towards a 10" machine. (If nothing else, I am actually starting to suffer from a slight loss of near-vision acuity, which for someone who has always been highly myopic is a really weird experience. Without my glasses, I used to be able to read text on a page that was literally an inch from my nose. This was like a ******* superpower when it came to reading the markings on tiny surface-mount ICs. Nowadays I have to use a magnifier just like everyone else...)


**** that ****. Whatever I get is going to be new, from Best Buy / B&H / J&R. With very few exceptions, I don't do used when it comes to cheap consumer electronic devices.


That's pretty much the assumption I was going on, so good to know.

You're not the first person I have heard criticize the UI on the Galaxy S4, and yet I don't really understand why this is. It seems functionally comparable to every other Android device I have owned. Sure, certain control-panel-ish functions are always in different places, and I'm annoyed that it doesn't just mount as generic removable storage when I plug it into my PC (my old HTC Espresso did), but beyond that, all Android devices seem pretty much the same to me, inasmuch as the UI is concerned.


Can you offer an example here?




That's pretty cool. I wasn't assuming that MKV files would play natively on any tablet.



Does this also apply to the Nexus 10? Judging solely by the Google website, the two machines appear to be quite different, at least in physical appearance.

I have no basis for comparison on how much storage I need, as I've never owned a "serious" android device before.

I can tell you, for instance, that my dropbox account has 4 GB (of 8) currently in use, and while I certainly could selectively pare this down, I'd prefer not having to bother, and will gladly pay not to.

At any given time, the video folder on my laptop probably has 20-30GB of stuff in it, but that's mostly me being sloppy and not cleaning up after myself.

In general, if I assume a device with "16 GB" or "32 GB", how much of that is available to the user initially, and how much will wind up getting eaten over time to updates, application caches, and so on?

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

I get that 100%. I've arrived at that point as well.

The 10" tablets are typically quite small when compared to other 10" devices such as a netbook. If you'd be happy with a 20% reduction in size you'd probably be very happy with a 10" tablet. Go play with them at Best Buy.


Makes sense. If you'd consider refurbished devices, there are several companies out there that sell them (Groupon goods, woot, overstock.com, tigerdirect, newegg, etc). If you decide to go that route, the best of the first-generation 10" Android tablets was the Asus transformer. You can buy them cheap, they are super super solid devices, and you can get the neat keyboard that attaches (and takes the battery life to somewhere in the 15 hour range).


Once you've used a stock Android device, you'll see what I mean. Samsung's UI is sooooo feature laden that it's cluttered. I don't like how all the colors are so shouty. I don't like the million things in my notification drop down. I don't like the million apps that Samsung + carriers drop on my phone, cluttering up my app drawer. I don't like that Samsung forces you to use certain apps (or uses them by default instead of the Google services).

TL;DR Samsung is shouty, cluttery and gimmicky when compared to a pure Google device.


The Nexus 10 is built by Samsung. I haven't looked at the specs for some time, but it was (and I believe still is) the highest-pixel-density 10" class tablet. Extremely sharp display, nice case (soft touch instead of the regular cheap plastic Samsung is known for). The processor is not cutting-edge but does use the A15 architecture and should offer good performance.

The biggest problem with the Nexus 10 right now is that it's currently sold out in the google play store. They must have discounted it recently or something. So you might check up on that. Solid device, though, and with pure Android would offer a really nice experience.

a 16GB stock android device will have 11-13 GB user available, and a 32GB will have somewhere in the range of 27GB user available. A samsung device would have less user-available because the OS skin (and their bloat apps) take up space.

Based on your info above I'd say 16GB should do you fine, but I'd always recommend the 32GB. Running out of space is frustrating, and it can happen pretty easily on a tablet.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

I'll try to type up some more organized thoughts later on, but for now, I just want to point this out:

A kickass 7" screen is absolutely 100% superior to a decent 8" or 10" screen.

I based this on comparing my 2013 Nexus 7 to my previous tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab 8.9) and my current company tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1).

The only, and I mean the ONLY exception to this, is for PDF's that are low-res scans of actual documents. In that one particular case, yes, screen size is king, and the extra sharpness of the Nexus 7 screen doesn't make blurry scans of old documents any more legible.

Apart from that, however, I'd take a great 7" screen over a mediocre-to-decent 8" or 10" screen.

NiklasFalk

iTrader: (1)

Using DicePlayer it works nicely.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

I actually looked at the current-gen Transformer as a candidate. I was actually quite surprised to see that the Z3740 CPU comes within spitting distance, performance-wise, of the U9600 Core2Duo in my Dell E4200. Sadly, the 2GB RAM limit* means that this isn't going to replace my laptop for laptoppy stuff, and thus, I question whether I'd actually benefit from the keyboard, or if it's just be one more thing to haul around and another failure-point.




And it also seems not to be available at retail outlets, which completely nixes that.



They all seem to support MicroSD cards, and I already have a surplus 8GB unit just sitting around that I'm not using for anything. In your experience, how hard is it to manage, say, media and downloads across multiple storage devices? My only experience here is with my old HTC Expresso phone (Android 2.1), which the SD card came out of, and that could sometimes be a tad nonintuative, mostly because it seems like the apps always wanted to manage that for me (and completely hide it from me), rather then letting me select dynamically where to load and save files.




You have young eyes, my friend. Try this comparison again in 10-15 years.


Another factor, for me, is the size of the OSK. I've become quite proficient with Swype on my phone, but a 7" screen is probably too large to be doing a lot of that one-handed, whereas I know from using a MS Surface that on a 10" display, I can type normally quite well.




So, decision, decisions...

A few Win8 contenders in the $400 range, such as: Lenovo 64GB IdeaTab Miix 10 Tablet (Silver) 59374680 B&H Photo


And a huge number of Android offerings, from the mid $200s to the $400s, such as:

Lenovo 16GB IdeaTab S6000 10.1" Entertainment 59368543 B&H

Acer 16GB Iconia A Series A3-A10-L662 10.1" NT.L29AA.002

ASUS 16GB MeMO Pad FHD 10 Tablet (Royal Blue) ME302C-A1-BL B&H

Toshiba 16GB Excite Pure 10.1" Tablet PDA0FU-00H008 B&H

HP 16GB Slate 10 HD Tablet (Wi-Fi, Slate Gray) F4C52UA#ABA B&H



Finding it very frustrating to try and compare processor specs on these. With the desktop / laptop market, I just go to passmark.com, and they've got benchmarks for every CPU made in the last 20 years. Within the Android domain, no such compendium seems extant.

Joe Perez

iTrader: (8)

So I'd kind of been zeroing on on the 32G Asus MeMO FHD 10. Reviews on it are pretty glowing, especially with regard to the 1920x1200 display. Ran across one that made an interesting comment (emphasis mine):
Hmm. I wonder if TunerStudio MS falls into the category of "most"?

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

Re: 16 vs 32G
Neither Android nor Windows does a great job of handling expanded memory. Both treat it as separate from the original memory not as expansions. It's the same as adding another drive except you can't 'extend' the drive. I'd opt for the 32G to begin with regardless of an expansion port or not.

Re: Keyboards, Android has a number of excellent tablet keyboards; SWYPE (as you know), Swiftkey, Thumbs and probably a 100 more. I use Swiftkey on my phone and tablet(s) and set it up for a split keyboard on the 10" unit. I haven't seen any 3rd party keybords for Windows 8 touch.

Re: Nexus 10, pretty much a forgone conclusion there's a replacement ready to be announced. You can find the 'rumored' specs online easily. Pretty hard to beat a Google spec'd NEXUS device.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

I ran TunerStudio MS on my Windows 8 tablet in touch mode. All I can say is it was good a buddy was driving the car while I was screwing with the tablet.... TunerStudio in touch mode = accident waiting to happen!

But it did run great on an Atom class system with 2G RAM and a 64G SSD as the system drive.

Don't think they have an Android port for TS. Maybe, given they have a Linux port you could do this in your free time