Whos got a motorcycle here?
06-16-2009, 01:02 PM
#21
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Not sure exactly what you mean... I guess it depends on the mistake. The most common riding error that a new guy makes is entering a corner too fast and making a combination of mistakes that results in driving wide off the road... typically involves poor corner entry, head position (looking in the wrong place), too much rear brake, and a few others.
From being an EMT for 4 years and 8 years of riding experience, I can tell you it's completey the opposite. Abrasion injuries are usually shoulders, butt, calves, thighs, head, back, arms, and ankles. During an accident, the body is natually going to curl up if able to protect the internal organs. I've never seen somebody's abdomen scraped open. On the other hand, a 20mph impact into a solid object (even fully geared up) is enough to kill you from internal injuries. It IS the impact that kills you.
From being an EMT for 4 years and 8 years of riding experience, I can tell you it's completey the opposite. Abrasion injuries are usually shoulders, butt, calves, thighs, head, back, arms, and ankles. During an accident, the body is natually going to curl up if able to protect the internal organs. I've never seen somebody's abdomen scraped open. On the other hand, a 20mph impact into a solid object (even fully geared up) is enough to kill you from internal injuries. It IS the impact that kills you.
Ill take your word on the accidents and what kills you. Scary ****++
As far as advice, buy the best gear you can afford. If you can't afford a $400+ jacket and $400+ helmet you can't afford to ride. I ride Dainese, Alpinestars, Shoei, Arai, Sidi... And that's pretty much it. You WILL fall off the bike at some point, and you WILL be a giant scab if you're wearing junk. I'm far from rich, but I saved my nickels until I could afford to buy nice enough stuff that I feel safe in it.
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06-16-2009, 01:08 PM
#22
You and your ninja edits.
I understand now what you are saying on the survivability. You do want to keep road rash to a minimum because once you have injured yourself you want as less healing needed as possible for your body to fight the serious internal injuries you've sustained.
I understand now what you are saying on the survivability. You do want to keep road rash to a minimum because once you have injured yourself you want as less healing needed as possible for your body to fight the serious internal injuries you've sustained.
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06-16-2009, 02:05 PM
#25
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One thing that totally bites is that it takes 4 - 6 weeks for the wavier to come from the DMV after I pass the course.
Last edited by Saml01; 06-16-2009 at 02:36 PM.
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06-16-2009, 03:03 PM
#26
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06-16-2009, 04:26 PM
#27
Once I move, I'm going to hide in the woods back here at my old place and snipe the stupid **** on his sport bike who goes WOT 1st thru 3rd gear leaving the stop sign adjacent from my bedroom window... regardless of time of day/night.
Then I'm going to chloroform the neighbors dog, tie him up by his ********* hanging from their porch, and bang on their back door and run.
Sorry so off topic. I did mention sport bike though.
Then I'm going to chloroform the neighbors dog, tie him up by his ********* hanging from their porch, and bang on their back door and run.
Sorry so off topic. I did mention sport bike though.
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06-16-2009, 05:07 PM
#28
I'm 21, been riding since I was 7, and have had 8 bikes so far. I've had everything from 50cc dirtbikes to 600cc sportbikes and got some road rash from the latter. I'm a huge fan of Ninja 250's as starter bikes and would probably get one of the new ones for a track bike if I had some money. That being said, you will get tired of it eventually and an SV650 is the best compromise in my opinion for a new rider.
As far as other advice; everyone on the road is trying to kill you, ie ride defensively. You're taking a cycle course so that's a good step, but I also highly recommend doing a beginner track day at some point to learn the limits of the bike in a place with no cops, traffic, or gravel, plus it's an insane amount of fun.
As far as other advice; everyone on the road is trying to kill you, ie ride defensively. You're taking a cycle course so that's a good step, but I also highly recommend doing a beginner track day at some point to learn the limits of the bike in a place with no cops, traffic, or gravel, plus it's an insane amount of fun.
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06-16-2009, 11:15 PM
#29
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So what jacket brands do you guys recommend?
newenough has some alpinestar jackets on closeout in the range of 200 - 300, how do I know whats good and whats not good for the money?
What about helmets? They have Scorpion Exo 700's for 109. Reviews seem to be really praising the hell out of it, but how safe is it to buy a helmet that cheap?
newenough has some alpinestar jackets on closeout in the range of 200 - 300, how do I know whats good and whats not good for the money?
What about helmets? They have Scorpion Exo 700's for 109. Reviews seem to be really praising the hell out of it, but how safe is it to buy a helmet that cheap?
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06-16-2009, 11:44 PM
#30
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My last jacket (which Abe now owns) was a Cortech, made from perforated leather, with armor on the shoulders, elbows, and back. While much heavier than the textile jacket I had before that, it was surprisingly breezy and comfortable. Despite having some relatively thick padding, movement of the arms was not at all impaired nor did it feel like I was wearing a flak jacket. It also had a removable insulated inner liner for when it got chilly.
The real selling point for me was that the stitching was quite heavy, and all the hardware was metal. When I went down wearing the previous jacket, the stitching failed causing the whole left shoulder section to detach as one piece, and the plastic front zipper separated.
As to helmets, the old saying is true: how much is your head worth? My current lid is a $400 Shoei RF-1000, which replaced an identical one that I killed in my last crash.
Actually, it's not just crash-resistance that separates the cheap helmets from the pricey ones. A lot has to do with comfort. All else being equal, the high-end units tend to be lighter, quieter, have better ventilation, and are lined with nicer stuff on the inside. They also usually have interchangeable inner foam pieces so you can customize the fit around your cheeks and temples. Even simple little stuff, like the D-rings that you use to fasten the strap and the hinge that the visor moves on are nicer.
Like shoes, helmets are something that you just gotta try on in the store. You can try out 20 different models, all in the same size, and you'll find that some just fit on your head better than others.
Oh, and I'll add a +1 on Newenough. I've bought a lot of stuff from them, and never had a bad dealing. Read the "Paul's Comments". For a sales pitch, they actually seem to be pretty truthful and accurate. They'll tell you if a certain model tends to run wide or long or thin or short. Some jackets are cut for underwear models with six-pack abs, others are designed for folks lugging around a mini-keg. They also do a pretty good job describing the fit-n-finish, the various types of padding, etc. Also, some jackets are cut at the shoulders and elbows for use with lay-down sportbikes, others better accommodate upright bikes, and yet others the "arms in the air" cruiser crowd. They're not going to come right out and say "this jacket is crap, but we still sell it", though you can kinda get a feel for which ones they really like, and which ones are just "good enough."
The real selling point for me was that the stitching was quite heavy, and all the hardware was metal. When I went down wearing the previous jacket, the stitching failed causing the whole left shoulder section to detach as one piece, and the plastic front zipper separated.
As to helmets, the old saying is true: how much is your head worth? My current lid is a $400 Shoei RF-1000, which replaced an identical one that I killed in my last crash.
Actually, it's not just crash-resistance that separates the cheap helmets from the pricey ones. A lot has to do with comfort. All else being equal, the high-end units tend to be lighter, quieter, have better ventilation, and are lined with nicer stuff on the inside. They also usually have interchangeable inner foam pieces so you can customize the fit around your cheeks and temples. Even simple little stuff, like the D-rings that you use to fasten the strap and the hinge that the visor moves on are nicer.
Like shoes, helmets are something that you just gotta try on in the store. You can try out 20 different models, all in the same size, and you'll find that some just fit on your head better than others.
Oh, and I'll add a +1 on Newenough. I've bought a lot of stuff from them, and never had a bad dealing. Read the "Paul's Comments". For a sales pitch, they actually seem to be pretty truthful and accurate. They'll tell you if a certain model tends to run wide or long or thin or short. Some jackets are cut for underwear models with six-pack abs, others are designed for folks lugging around a mini-keg. They also do a pretty good job describing the fit-n-finish, the various types of padding, etc. Also, some jackets are cut at the shoulders and elbows for use with lay-down sportbikes, others better accommodate upright bikes, and yet others the "arms in the air" cruiser crowd. They're not going to come right out and say "this jacket is crap, but we still sell it", though you can kinda get a feel for which ones they really like, and which ones are just "good enough."
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06-17-2009, 12:02 AM
#32
you mean for your insurance or for your papers to ride hell all we need in KY is a written test and we can ride. They are all very capable of keeping you from harm however the leather is the best while being hotter heavier and pricier. My honda jacket is a textile and i would trust it at most any reasonable speed to help me walk away with less injurys, my dads mesh joe rocket jacket is good for probly 20-30 mph slideage, leather is required by most tracks to race and holds up well into ludicrous speeds.
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06-17-2009, 12:15 AM
#33
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+1 on the SV-650, great bike. Buy used, lots of them out there.
+1 on getting a good helmet. Skip the graphics to save money.
+1 on riding in a group at first. It is good to ride with others for safety, but it is really easy to get in over your head fast if you are riding with a better rider. I saw a new rider break his leg in a corner on his new sport bike after being clearly and strongly warned not to follow the pack but to ride at his own pace. He got in over his head trying to follow a fast guy, ran wide in a corner, hit a guard rail, and broke his femur, less than 20 minutes into the ride. Game over.
Leather is definitely better than Cordura or mesh, no doubt. But it is also hot. If you live in a hot climate, get fully perforated leathers. Also, get a two-piece for the street. One-piece is too difficult to get in and out of. BUT get a full circumference zipper for safety. Get an undergarment like a RS Taichi. It will help keep you cool and make the leathers a lot more comfortable.
Stay away from Technic, their leathers suck, even the high-end ones. The stitching burns off fast in a crash and they come apart. I know this first-hand. AGV is a good lower-cost brand based on what I have seen. One of the guys I race with crashed in his AGV suit (one-piece) like 6+ times before he finally retired them.
I have crashed in my Vansons three times and they are still going. Vanson is expensive though. I got really lucky on mine, a used set, practically new, off ebay, for $250 IIRC. They look like **** now, but they are still doing their job.
Two basic tips on leathers. The fewer pieces they are made from, the better they are. Fewer seams means larger pieces of leather (more expensive). If you look at the good rack suits (Taichi) or the good custom ones (like Vanson or Syed) you will see this trend. Also look for hidden stitching style seams. If all of the stitching is right on the surface, it will fail in a crash and the seams come apart. The good ones will be double or triple stitched with some of the stitching buried in the seam so it is not exposed to sliding pavement.
Armor is important too. I would also get good gloves, and good riding boots. Sidis are great. Not cheap, but comfortable and will protect your feet well in a crash.
+1 on Newenough they are a good store. Keep an eye on ebay too.
+1 on getting a good helmet. Skip the graphics to save money.
+1 on riding in a group at first. It is good to ride with others for safety, but it is really easy to get in over your head fast if you are riding with a better rider. I saw a new rider break his leg in a corner on his new sport bike after being clearly and strongly warned not to follow the pack but to ride at his own pace. He got in over his head trying to follow a fast guy, ran wide in a corner, hit a guard rail, and broke his femur, less than 20 minutes into the ride. Game over.
Leather is definitely better than Cordura or mesh, no doubt. But it is also hot. If you live in a hot climate, get fully perforated leathers. Also, get a two-piece for the street. One-piece is too difficult to get in and out of. BUT get a full circumference zipper for safety. Get an undergarment like a RS Taichi. It will help keep you cool and make the leathers a lot more comfortable.
Stay away from Technic, their leathers suck, even the high-end ones. The stitching burns off fast in a crash and they come apart. I know this first-hand. AGV is a good lower-cost brand based on what I have seen. One of the guys I race with crashed in his AGV suit (one-piece) like 6+ times before he finally retired them.
I have crashed in my Vansons three times and they are still going. Vanson is expensive though. I got really lucky on mine, a used set, practically new, off ebay, for $250 IIRC. They look like **** now, but they are still doing their job.
Two basic tips on leathers. The fewer pieces they are made from, the better they are. Fewer seams means larger pieces of leather (more expensive). If you look at the good rack suits (Taichi) or the good custom ones (like Vanson or Syed) you will see this trend. Also look for hidden stitching style seams. If all of the stitching is right on the surface, it will fail in a crash and the seams come apart. The good ones will be double or triple stitched with some of the stitching buried in the seam so it is not exposed to sliding pavement.
Armor is important too. I would also get good gloves, and good riding boots. Sidis are great. Not cheap, but comfortable and will protect your feet well in a crash.
+1 on Newenough they are a good store. Keep an eye on ebay too.
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06-17-2009, 12:26 AM
#34
I've got s set of heavy duty Joe Rocket textile stuff in the closet. I believe the model is Ballistic. I could never buy into the leather for simple daily riding... but the better textile stuff has all the armor and is much more comfortable than leather for medium and long distance riding. Draggin Jeans and the Bohn Armor stuff is also great defense against all but the most serious slide-events.
SPEND SOME TIME TRYING ON HELMETS!!! No helmet is the same as another. One model from one company will fit your head like a damn butter glove. I had no idea how important helmets were until I started flying tactical aircraft and was forced to wear one for 8-10hrs at a stretch.
You'll go through a set of gloves every 12months max... maybe sooner depending on how often you ride and how much they get wet. IMHO, you want something that comes down and has a large velcro strap that covers all the way down to the big bump that starts your ulna. Covering that huge lump of bone with the gloves ensures it's protected in case your jacket sleeve rides up during a crash... nothing worse than carpal bones exposed because you bought bicycle gloves to ride in.
Boots are like gloves... THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! It's not like Nikes where you try on the cheapest pair and they feel OK and you're sure they'll just work themselves in. Try on multiple models in various sizes and various manufacturers until you find the one that fits perfect. Boots you'll have forever and they should fit like I fit in your Mom (you know what I mean)... just kidding, but seriously... you know.
SPEND SOME TIME TRYING ON HELMETS!!! No helmet is the same as another. One model from one company will fit your head like a damn butter glove. I had no idea how important helmets were until I started flying tactical aircraft and was forced to wear one for 8-10hrs at a stretch.
You'll go through a set of gloves every 12months max... maybe sooner depending on how often you ride and how much they get wet. IMHO, you want something that comes down and has a large velcro strap that covers all the way down to the big bump that starts your ulna. Covering that huge lump of bone with the gloves ensures it's protected in case your jacket sleeve rides up during a crash... nothing worse than carpal bones exposed because you bought bicycle gloves to ride in.
Boots are like gloves... THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! It's not like Nikes where you try on the cheapest pair and they feel OK and you're sure they'll just work themselves in. Try on multiple models in various sizes and various manufacturers until you find the one that fits perfect. Boots you'll have forever and they should fit like I fit in your Mom (you know what I mean)... just kidding, but seriously... you know.
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06-17-2009, 11:18 AM
#35
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+1 on the SV-650, great bike. Buy used, lots of them out there.
+1 on getting a good helmet. Skip the graphics to save money.
+1 on riding in a group at first. It is good to ride with others for safety, but it is really easy to get in over your head fast if you are riding with a better rider. I saw a new rider break his leg in a corner on his new sport bike after being clearly and strongly warned not to follow the pack but to ride at his own pace. He got in over his head trying to follow a fast guy, ran wide in a corner, hit a guard rail, and broke his femur, less than 20 minutes into the ride. Game over.
+1 on getting a good helmet. Skip the graphics to save money.
+1 on riding in a group at first. It is good to ride with others for safety, but it is really easy to get in over your head fast if you are riding with a better rider. I saw a new rider break his leg in a corner on his new sport bike after being clearly and strongly warned not to follow the pack but to ride at his own pace. He got in over his head trying to follow a fast guy, ran wide in a corner, hit a guard rail, and broke his femur, less than 20 minutes into the ride. Game over.
Thanks for the info on the cloths guys, im gonna look up some of this stuff and come back with more questions.
Last edited by Saml01; 06-17-2009 at 11:42 AM.
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06-17-2009, 06:07 PM
#36
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Currently own a CBR600 Fsport, and a fair few 70's 80's Jap bikes.
And in it's current state.
Been riding motorbikes since i was 14 so 26 years.
Raced on the track, road racing, enduro and 1 race on a supermoto.
Toured around Europe on everything from a RD250 air cooled to a CBR600.
I think i've had or ridden extensively probably around 80% of bikes sold till 2000.
Most outrageous was a 300bhp Turbo'd ZZR drag bike, some how managed to wheelie AND wheel spin at a 100mph.
Not much to add really as you've already got great advice here.
Best advice i ever got was from a racer that used to live locally, ride smoother not faster.
Sort of makes sense when ya riding.
I'd also agree with riding on your own at first, at least till you start to find your comfort zone and limits.
It's just to easy to notch it up a bit faster, panic then ride head first into a tree.
Most crashed i've seen are stupid ones where the rider has just bottled it.
Instead of tipping into a corner, they convince themselfs they're not going to make it and sit up.
Far better to just drop it on it's side and try and make the corner.
Ohh and look where you want to go, not at what you don't want to hit.
And get some trackdays done.
Cheers
Mark
And in it's current state.
Been riding motorbikes since i was 14 so 26 years.
Raced on the track, road racing, enduro and 1 race on a supermoto.
Toured around Europe on everything from a RD250 air cooled to a CBR600.
I think i've had or ridden extensively probably around 80% of bikes sold till 2000.
Most outrageous was a 300bhp Turbo'd ZZR drag bike, some how managed to wheelie AND wheel spin at a 100mph.
Not much to add really as you've already got great advice here.
Best advice i ever got was from a racer that used to live locally, ride smoother not faster.
Sort of makes sense when ya riding.
I'd also agree with riding on your own at first, at least till you start to find your comfort zone and limits.
It's just to easy to notch it up a bit faster, panic then ride head first into a tree.
Most crashed i've seen are stupid ones where the rider has just bottled it.
Instead of tipping into a corner, they convince themselfs they're not going to make it and sit up.
Far better to just drop it on it's side and try and make the corner.
Ohh and look where you want to go, not at what you don't want to hit.
And get some trackdays done.
Cheers
Mark
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06-17-2009, 09:20 PM
#39
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Target fixation is a bitch. It bites just about everyone, but you can learn to fight it.
Looking through the turn is one of the keys to riding better. It takes practice. The general idea is look where you want to go, not what is right in front of you. That is one of the things I do not like about cars; the a-pillar gets in the way of looking through the turn, especially on the driver's side.
Looking through the turn is one of the keys to riding better. It takes practice. The general idea is look where you want to go, not what is right in front of you. That is one of the things I do not like about cars; the a-pillar gets in the way of looking through the turn, especially on the driver's side.
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06-17-2009, 09:44 PM
#40
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Question. ZX-Tex.
Full circumference zipper, is that a zipper that attaches the jacket to the pants?
Im guessing.
------
If I had to compile a list of companies that make dependable gear, would it look like this. Add or subtract if I should or should not consider that company for that particular item.
Helmet:
Shoei
Arai
Scorpion
Jacket:
Vanson
Joe Rocket
Alpinstar
Cortech
Pants:
Same as jackets?
Boots:
No idea, who makes boots?
Gloves:
No idea, who makes gloves?
Does one company do better textile then leather, or vice versa?
Full circumference zipper, is that a zipper that attaches the jacket to the pants?
Im guessing.
------
If I had to compile a list of companies that make dependable gear, would it look like this. Add or subtract if I should or should not consider that company for that particular item.
Helmet:
Shoei
Arai
Scorpion
Jacket:
Vanson
Joe Rocket
Alpinstar
Cortech
Pants:
Same as jackets?
Boots:
No idea, who makes boots?
Gloves:
No idea, who makes gloves?
Does one company do better textile then leather, or vice versa?
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