Whos got a motorcycle here?
06-20-2009, 12:18 AM
#62
Originally Posted by boisking
For those of you who don't know, Jeff was struck by a car while riding his motorcycle. He was T-boned by somebody who didn't bother to look before entering the roadway. He has some broken bones, and has been in the hospital for over a week, now. Doctors say he should be fine with time, which is good. For now, though, keep him in your thoughts.
With fuel prices rising, make sure to tell everybody you see that all drivers need to pay closer attention to who they share the roads with. We all know people who ride bikes to save on gas, and nobody wants to see these people get hurt. SUV drivers do not get rights to exclusive road use. I personally travel by bicycle often, and prefer to stay alive and healthy.
With fuel prices rising, make sure to tell everybody you see that all drivers need to pay closer attention to who they share the roads with. We all know people who ride bikes to save on gas, and nobody wants to see these people get hurt. SUV drivers do not get rights to exclusive road use. I personally travel by bicycle often, and prefer to stay alive and healthy.
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06-20-2009, 02:33 AM
#63
bike wheels are frigin expensive man like 500+$ apiece 90% of the bikes from the 80's on have atleast disc front brakes and do quite well. What will limit your stoping etc as always is traction. Alot of older bikes like mine run a puny *** 110 or 100 front tire. And hence when you realy hit the breacks you either do a stoppy standing on the front wheel or you low side the ****. Solution being get a cheap older bike get good at riding and then decide where you wanna go, and what you wanna use to take you there.
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06-20-2009, 10:41 AM
#64
Make sure you get proper-fitting gear as well. Don't mind my girlish physique, but this was when I was 17 after I lost control of my F4i due to a tankslapper after a wheelie. I was wearing a textile jacket, gloves, and helmet on my way home from work. When I came off the bike I just started sliding down the road which caused my jacket to slide up my torso and arms until I realized I should start rolling instead of sliding.
Road rash itself doesn't hurt so much, it's the time in the ER that sucks. For those that don't know, they literally scrub the rash with a plastic scrub brush to get them cleaned out and to avoid "asphalt tattooing". Worst 6 hours I've ever spent, luckily they gave me drugs to make me forget most of it.
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06-20-2009, 01:37 PM
#66
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yes and no. If you're driving safely I don't think that it'd be necessary, but I could be wrong. My friend's R1 has a steering damper and I hate it, really makes parking lot maneuvers annoying. Then again I have a bit of a wobble at 130+ which might be solved with a steering damper. I just don't plan on going that fast often.
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06-20-2009, 02:55 PM
#67
+1 TO THAT ONE.
Make sure you are the comfortable one on the bike. Size you can handle.
I had a 76 honda cb750... heavy as lead , Fast as ****, would take a country mile to stop....
Move up to a 96 vfr 750.. Worlds different, thousand times better, safer breaking etc...
best idea for the begenner.... have a bike you can have fun with,and ride safely...
Make sure you are the comfortable one on the bike. Size you can handle.
I had a 76 honda cb750... heavy as lead , Fast as ****, would take a country mile to stop....
Move up to a 96 vfr 750.. Worlds different, thousand times better, safer breaking etc...
best idea for the begenner.... have a bike you can have fun with,and ride safely...
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06-20-2009, 05:22 PM
#68
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Yeah man I really would not recommend a 600 or a 1000 for your first bike. The 600 is harder to ride on the street since they are pretty gutless out of the power band. The liter bikes have flatter powerbands but they are fast as hell and can get away from you quickly.
The SV is a great bike. They are cheap, parts are plentiful new and used, not covered with expensive bodywork, they have a large following (www.svrider.com), and they are really easy to ride because the motor response is so flat, especially compared to a 600. At track days I can pass guys on 600s and 1000s on my little SV because it rails in the corners when set up properly. Race tires help too
The SV is a great bike. They are cheap, parts are plentiful new and used, not covered with expensive bodywork, they have a large following (www.svrider.com), and they are really easy to ride because the motor response is so flat, especially compared to a 600. At track days I can pass guys on 600s and 1000s on my little SV because it rails in the corners when set up properly. Race tires help too
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06-20-2009, 09:19 PM
#69
Make sure you get proper-fitting gear as well. Don't mind my girlish physique, but this was when I was 17 after I lost control of my F4i due to a tankslapper after a wheelie. I was wearing a textile jacket, gloves, and helmet on my way home from work. When I came off the bike I just started sliding down the road which caused my jacket to slide up my torso and arms until I realized I should start rolling instead of sliding.
Road rash itself doesn't hurt so much, it's the time in the ER that sucks. For those that don't know, they literally scrub the rash with a plastic scrub brush to get them cleaned out and to avoid "asphalt tattooing". Worst 6 hours I've ever spent, luckily they gave me drugs to make me forget most of it.
Steering damper are mostly for hyper bikes who take on hyper speeds i wouldnt put much stock in it as a selling point while it will not hurt you dont need it.
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06-20-2009, 09:30 PM
#70
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Good news.
Someone dropped out of an earlier BRC, gotta love blackberry instant push emails, now my class is the 24th.
I am guessing you are referring to the difference between 4cyl and 2 cyl bikes of the same engine size?
Someone dropped out of an earlier BRC, gotta love blackberry instant push emails, now my class is the 24th.
Yeah man I really would not recommend a 600 or a 1000 for your first bike. The 600 is harder to ride on the street since they are pretty gutless out of the power band. The liter bikes have flatter powerbands but they are fast as hell and can get away from you quickly.
The SV is a great bike. They are cheap, parts are plentiful new and used, not covered with expensive bodywork, they have a large following (svrider.com), and they are really easy to ride because the motor response is so flat, especially compared to a 600. At track days I can pass guys on 600s and 1000s on my little SV because it rails in the corners when set up properly. Race tires help too
The SV is a great bike. They are cheap, parts are plentiful new and used, not covered with expensive bodywork, they have a large following (svrider.com), and they are really easy to ride because the motor response is so flat, especially compared to a 600. At track days I can pass guys on 600s and 1000s on my little SV because it rails in the corners when set up properly. Race tires help too
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06-20-2009, 09:31 PM
#71
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Yeah man I really would not recommend a 600 or a 1000 for your first bike. The 600 is harder to ride on the street since they are pretty gutless out of the power band. The liter bikes have flatter powerbands but they are fast as hell and can get away from you quickly.
The SV is a great bike. They are cheap, parts are plentiful new and used, not covered with expensive bodywork, they have a large following (www.svrider.com), and they are really easy to ride because the motor response is so flat, especially compared to a 600. At track days I can pass guys on 600s and 1000s on my little SV because it rails in the corners when set up properly. Race tires help too
The SV is a great bike. They are cheap, parts are plentiful new and used, not covered with expensive bodywork, they have a large following (www.svrider.com), and they are really easy to ride because the motor response is so flat, especially compared to a 600. At track days I can pass guys on 600s and 1000s on my little SV because it rails in the corners when set up properly. Race tires help too
But i've just got to call bollox on that.
There's absolutely no way shape or form a SV1000 would stick with a well ridden 600 supersports bike never mind a 1000.
I absolutely agree a sorted SV can do that V-twin thing and get great drive out the corners, but compared to say a cbr600, gsxr1000 etc, the suspension, brakes chassis and tyres quickly start to show they were designed for street riding in mind.
I'd put money on that a noob i'd be quicker around a track on a SV.
But put a experienced rider on one and it quickly starts to show it's limits.
Put the same rider on a R6/R1 etc and they would lap a hell of a lot faster.
Likewise calling a 600 gutless and then comparing it to a sv600, is ridiculous.
The first 2 Dyno plots that came up from a search.
cbr600rr 07
SV650 04-05
Of course the V-twin makes more power earlier that's the point of V-twins.
But there's no noticeable difference in peak torque and because of the higher rev range the area under torque is more on the CBR.
Don't get me wrong i'm not saying the SV is a bad bike.
It's a great street bike.
But to put it up against supersports bikes on a track is really missing the whole point of the SV and like sticking a stock Miata against a Caterham R500.
Bikes like cbr600's are a piece of **** to ride, they are designed and built with a mind to be a noob's the first sportsbike, if you think they're hard to ride and learn on then if your over in the UK your welcome to take any one of my 70's 80's 2 strokes out for a blast.
I'll say again the SV is a great bike if your into V-twins.
But it's a great street bike that can be ridden on the track.
A supersport600/1000 is a track bike that can be ridden on the road.
Apples and oranges.
If it's a sportsbike you yearn after then that's what you should aim for, cause to be honest you'll never be right until you've bought one.
If your not bothered about sportsbikes then the SV i'd be a great contender, V-Twins arn't for everyone though so i'd say stick it on your short list but stick a 4 cylinder street bike in there as well see what tickles ya fancy.
Cheers
Mark
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06-20-2009, 09:31 PM
#72
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^ You bring up a lot of great points but I think you two are saying pretty much the same thing.
A 600SS bike is probably more likely to get a new rider into trouble because of the benefits it has over a V-twin bike.
A 600SS bike is probably more likely to get a new rider into trouble because of the benefits it has over a V-twin bike.
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06-20-2009, 09:34 PM
#73
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Most of the stock steering dampers suck anyway.
An SV is very stable and really does not need one unless you decrease the rake a lot, which is more of a racing thing. I have an adjustable one on my racing SV, but run greatly reduced rake, and am required by the rules to have one anyway. It is set on the light side.
An SV is very stable and really does not need one unless you decrease the rake a lot, which is more of a racing thing. I have an adjustable one on my racing SV, but run greatly reduced rake, and am required by the rules to have one anyway. It is set on the light side.
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06-20-2009, 09:39 PM
#75
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If you need a steering damper or not will be down to the bike you choose and the roads you ride on.
My CBR600fv (97) was fine, not 1 twitch in 40k miles.
The CBR600Fsport (01) slapped like a foooooker on the **** roads here.
The geometry on the Fsport was a little sharper and it just didn't work well with the distance between the bumps on the roads here.
I've never come across a half decent steering damper that's not adjustable either, so you can back it off in town to the point it's doing nothing, then just tighten it up when you get out of town.
On a street bike like the fazer, SV, hornet etc i honestly can't see as one would be needed unless you twated about dropping the front end through the fork etc.
On supersports bikes though like the gsxr, blade etc most if not all come with a steering damper from the factory.
Cheers
Mark
My CBR600fv (97) was fine, not 1 twitch in 40k miles.
The CBR600Fsport (01) slapped like a foooooker on the **** roads here.
The geometry on the Fsport was a little sharper and it just didn't work well with the distance between the bumps on the roads here.
I've never come across a half decent steering damper that's not adjustable either, so you can back it off in town to the point it's doing nothing, then just tighten it up when you get out of town.
On a street bike like the fazer, SV, hornet etc i honestly can't see as one would be needed unless you twated about dropping the front end through the fork etc.
On supersports bikes though like the gsxr, blade etc most if not all come with a steering damper from the factory.
Cheers
Mark
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06-20-2009, 09:48 PM
#77
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Eunos sorry but you do not know WTF you are talking about.
Go look at the results and lap times at CMRA :: Central Motorcycle Roadracing Association, particularly in the endurance race results. There is not a strong correlation between the size of the bike and the finishing place of the team. See here:
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/20...13/be/13_5.xml
The SV-650 that won its class finished 7th overall and beat a lot of 600s and liter bikes. It was off of the OVERALL podium by only two laps after a 184 lap race. Not too shabby. The guys that won the Endurance F2 overall class last year (IIRC they won all of the races in their class) have a mostly stock SV-650. Stock forks with a little tuning, stock motor, stock brakes maybe with Vesrah pads. The team owner is a notorious tightwad when it comes to bike modifications, but he is a fast as hell rider. In fact there are a lot of fast guys in the CMRA, and some fast guys used to race there. Ben Spies, Nicky Hayden, Colin Edwards, Kevin Schwantz...
The real point of this is that in the right hands, an SV-650 (not an SV-600 as you said) can be just as fast or faster than a 600 or a liter bike. If you are just talking about straight line acceleration, that is different. The 600s and liter bikes are faster. But any fool can twist a throttle (though not any fool can launch one well at the drag strip, or on a standing road race start, like we do). It takes considerably more skill to go fast on a road course or in the twisties on the street. Ask anyone who races bikes, 90% rider, 10% bike is the universal mantra.
When you have raced SV650s, 600s, and liter bikes, like I have, then you will know what I know. When you have an Expert Racing license and have been racing for 5+ years, and finished on the podium, then you will know what I know. Until then, quit looking at dyno graphs, as they are pointless when it really comes down to riding a bike well.
And I did not say a 600 was gutless, I said they were gutless below their power bands. They make power with high-revving engines and the corresponding cam profiles and timing. The ZX-636 THAT I RACE BTW is a turd under 9000 RPM or so. Get it above 10K and it pulls a lot harder to 15K+. Ever ridden one around a track, dragging knee? I'll bet you have not.
But, just to look at your dyno graphs more, they help make my point. At 1/2 of its redline RPM, the SV-650 is making 58% of its peak power. The CBR is only making 42% of its peak power at 1/2 of its redline. And, they are making about the same absolute amount of power. What does that mean? A steeper power curve for the 600, and thus gear selection is more critical.
BUT, this is all pointless as the OP is just talking about getting his first street bike. The SV is perfect for this. If you really want a 600 or a liter bike, great, but don't get one thinking it will make you faster in the twisties (which is what sport bikes are really about). It won't make you faster. Riding schools and track days will. Save the extra money for the cost of the sport bike (and the higher insurance, and replacing the broken plastics the first time you drop it) and spend it on riding lessons, track days, and good gear.
Go look at the results and lap times at CMRA :: Central Motorcycle Roadracing Association, particularly in the endurance race results. There is not a strong correlation between the size of the bike and the finishing place of the team. See here:
http://www.cmraracing.com/Results/20...13/be/13_5.xml
The SV-650 that won its class finished 7th overall and beat a lot of 600s and liter bikes. It was off of the OVERALL podium by only two laps after a 184 lap race. Not too shabby. The guys that won the Endurance F2 overall class last year (IIRC they won all of the races in their class) have a mostly stock SV-650. Stock forks with a little tuning, stock motor, stock brakes maybe with Vesrah pads. The team owner is a notorious tightwad when it comes to bike modifications, but he is a fast as hell rider. In fact there are a lot of fast guys in the CMRA, and some fast guys used to race there. Ben Spies, Nicky Hayden, Colin Edwards, Kevin Schwantz...
The real point of this is that in the right hands, an SV-650 (not an SV-600 as you said) can be just as fast or faster than a 600 or a liter bike. If you are just talking about straight line acceleration, that is different. The 600s and liter bikes are faster. But any fool can twist a throttle (though not any fool can launch one well at the drag strip, or on a standing road race start, like we do). It takes considerably more skill to go fast on a road course or in the twisties on the street. Ask anyone who races bikes, 90% rider, 10% bike is the universal mantra.
When you have raced SV650s, 600s, and liter bikes, like I have, then you will know what I know. When you have an Expert Racing license and have been racing for 5+ years, and finished on the podium, then you will know what I know. Until then, quit looking at dyno graphs, as they are pointless when it really comes down to riding a bike well.
And I did not say a 600 was gutless, I said they were gutless below their power bands. They make power with high-revving engines and the corresponding cam profiles and timing. The ZX-636 THAT I RACE BTW is a turd under 9000 RPM or so. Get it above 10K and it pulls a lot harder to 15K+. Ever ridden one around a track, dragging knee? I'll bet you have not.
But, just to look at your dyno graphs more, they help make my point. At 1/2 of its redline RPM, the SV-650 is making 58% of its peak power. The CBR is only making 42% of its peak power at 1/2 of its redline. And, they are making about the same absolute amount of power. What does that mean? A steeper power curve for the 600, and thus gear selection is more critical.
BUT, this is all pointless as the OP is just talking about getting his first street bike. The SV is perfect for this. If you really want a 600 or a liter bike, great, but don't get one thinking it will make you faster in the twisties (which is what sport bikes are really about). It won't make you faster. Riding schools and track days will. Save the extra money for the cost of the sport bike (and the higher insurance, and replacing the broken plastics the first time you drop it) and spend it on riding lessons, track days, and good gear.
Last edited by ZX-Tex; 06-20-2009 at 10:19 PM.
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06-20-2009, 10:03 PM
#78
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Pretty much.
I don't agree that it's either fair or realistic to compare one to a SS on the track though.
I've no problem agreeing a SV i'd be a good bike to test ride in ya short list, but to lead people into believing it'd get anywhere close to a SS on most tracks is just bollox IMO.
I also disagree that a SS is likely to get you into more trouble.
Lets say you barrel into a corner a bit on the optimistic side.
The ONLY bike i'd want to be on in that case is a SS bike.
You've got greater feel from the tyres, better grip from better tyres, stronger brakes, better suspension and better geometry.
I'll be the first to admit that the differences may only be subtle in some areas i've mentioned, but lets be honest if your tanking into a corner too fast it's not exactly your lucky day so any help you get from the bike is well needed.
I'm not for or against V-twins on in-lines 4's or V4's or any other configuration, it's down to personal preferance.
But in my experiance big V-twins tend to be extremely decieving speed wise after you've riden in-line 4's.
With the lower redline and seemingly relaxed power delivery it's really easy to believe your going slower than your actually going.
At the end of the day we could sit and write/talk about various types of bikes and their pro's/con's till the cows come home.
There's no right answer, it's just a case of getting your **** on as many bikes as you can and seeing what type of bike suits you and the conditions your gonna be riding in.
As a prime example, i was bought up on RD350/250LC's (RZ over there) RD500's, RG250's then onto sportsbikes.
After 20 odd years riding sportsbikes my body had kinda got used to that riding position.
I took a mates Goldwing out and after 30 mins i physically couldn't ride it anymore.
Me lower back and **** were foooookin numb from the sit up and beg position.
Where as on me SS bike i'm tipped forwards, but at 80 odd mph the wind on ya chest pretty much has you floating.
With the barn door screen on the wing and the upright position i just couldn't get on with it.
So just try as many as ya can.
Cheers
Mark
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06-20-2009, 10:42 PM
#80
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Ahhhh bollox i really didn't want to get into this *****.
I specifically said it's not a bad bike.
Endurance racing, come on that the best you've got.
It's not even proper racing, it's who uses the least amount of fuel and doesn't break down or crash.
I've just checked that site you listed.
Yep it won it's class.
How many bikes eligible for that hotly contested class, 2.
SV650 and Ninja 650R.
Hardly a great comparison bike is it?
And looking at the results no Ninja 650R's completed the race anyways.
So it won it's class simply because no other bikes are in that class.
Yea it finished 7th.
6 whole foooookin laps behind the zx6.
Hows that even slightly comparable?
If you club race you'll know that fairing bashing is part and parcel of every race, anything less than 1 sec off the leader is like clawing back a mile.
At Catalunya last week the 250's were 2 mins race time off the MotoGP bikes,
They were lapping at around 1:42 in MotoGP.
So after the whole race a 250cc bike would still only be just over 1 lap off the MotoGP bike.
So the SV compared to the Zx6 is not even close is it?
Stock forks?
Bollox, stock sized tubes maybe, i'll bet a pound to a dollar nothings stock internally though
5years racing
I've got leathers with more racing experience than that
Pointless getting into the i'm faster more experianced than you bollox.
I AM experienced, I HAVE raced off and on since i was 14, I HAVE raced on road courses (IOM NW500) and tracks, off road, off road endurance etc.
I've not raced a SV, but i have raced V-Twins, in-line twins, in-line 4's V 4's 2 stroke, 4 strokes etc etc.
I even got a few laps on a rotary engined bike.
As far as your ZX636 goes, it's a race bike who gives a fooook what it's like below 9000rpm unless you keep missing your gears
Yet again i agree the SV is a good bike to consider for the road.
But there's not a foooookin chance a comparable rider would stick with a SS bike on any half decent track.
Your giving away what 30kg and 30bhp, plus the bikes softer with narrower tyres/wheels.
I specifically said it's not a bad bike.
Endurance racing, come on that the best you've got.
It's not even proper racing, it's who uses the least amount of fuel and doesn't break down or crash.
I've just checked that site you listed.
Yep it won it's class.
How many bikes eligible for that hotly contested class, 2.
SV650 and Ninja 650R.
Hardly a great comparison bike is it?
And looking at the results no Ninja 650R's completed the race anyways.
So it won it's class simply because no other bikes are in that class.
Yea it finished 7th.
6 whole foooookin laps behind the zx6.
Hows that even slightly comparable?
If you club race you'll know that fairing bashing is part and parcel of every race, anything less than 1 sec off the leader is like clawing back a mile.
At Catalunya last week the 250's were 2 mins race time off the MotoGP bikes,
They were lapping at around 1:42 in MotoGP.
So after the whole race a 250cc bike would still only be just over 1 lap off the MotoGP bike.
So the SV compared to the Zx6 is not even close is it?
Stock forks?
Bollox, stock sized tubes maybe, i'll bet a pound to a dollar nothings stock internally though
5years racing
I've got leathers with more racing experience than that
Pointless getting into the i'm faster more experianced than you bollox.
I AM experienced, I HAVE raced off and on since i was 14, I HAVE raced on road courses (IOM NW500) and tracks, off road, off road endurance etc.
I've not raced a SV, but i have raced V-Twins, in-line twins, in-line 4's V 4's 2 stroke, 4 strokes etc etc.
I even got a few laps on a rotary engined bike.
As far as your ZX636 goes, it's a race bike who gives a fooook what it's like below 9000rpm unless you keep missing your gears
Yet again i agree the SV is a good bike to consider for the road.
But there's not a foooookin chance a comparable rider would stick with a SS bike on any half decent track.
Your giving away what 30kg and 30bhp, plus the bikes softer with narrower tyres/wheels.
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