NastyNate

iTrader: (1)

I think one very interesting thing my chl intructors taught was you don't shoot to kill. You shoot to stop the threat.

Pen2_the_penguin

iTrader: (4)

You know what that means, right? They arent saying to say "sorry i shot you, but you were endangering people. I spared your life however."

They mean that you can't be one of those idiots who think they are in the right to walk over, and "finish them off" and be okay in the eyes of the law. They can tell if there was intent to kill or it was a life threatening situation at crime scenes and they way you carry yourself after.

So many times has someone tried to bend the law as self defense, and sometimes it WAS a self defense scenario, but it instantly turns into a murder case when you reload and/or "finish them off" AFTER the threat has been neutralized.

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

Nate, I'm very glad somebody explained this to you, but allow me to elaborate... far too many people don't understand the difference between USING lethal force, and the INTENT to kill the person you're using it against. This concept also doesn't strictly apply to firearms for self-defense, as the rules for using lethal force don't change based on your tool. I've tried to make it a point in this thread (and in the RPG thread) to rectify misconceptions and to reinforce correct concepts when it comes to the use of lethal force.

"Shooting to kill" has no place anywhere in civilian use of firearms for self defense. Your goal is in fact, to simply stop the threat. Homicide is a legal concept encompasses many forms, among them are "justifiable homicide" and/or "excusable homicide", but also in there are the various degrees of murder... each state has a separate set of laws dealing with these concepts and you must know them. An anti-gun establishment (mayor/chief-of-police/district attorney), will twist those definitions to the breaking point to try and squeeze in a charge against you.

Many people who otherwise have a righteous shooting will tell the police officers at the scene "That ************ came at me and I killed his dumb *** dead"... or something to that effect... and talk themselves directly into a murder charge because it shows intent. This is one reason that while still at the scene you tell the police only that you were in fear of your life and used your firearm in self-defense, and then shut up. Should they wish to conduct an "interview", it's held in the presence of your lawyer... just ask GZ how bad he fucked that one up.

I know for a fact that THE MAJORITY of people who legally carry a gun for self-defense don't really understand even the ground floor of legal concepts, but think that "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 8" is going to be enough "before the judge"... which is dangerously ignorant, not only for the person carrying, but for the poor bastard he shoots if it's not justifiable.

I pimp out TheFiringLine forums as often as I can. The "Law and Civil Rights" forum is by far the most educational online forum I've ever read on any subject, ever. If you carry, you need to read these stickys at least once or twice, and commit the concepts to memory.

Civil Liability, Civil Immunity, and the Use of Force - The Firing Line Forums
Duty to Retreat, "Stand Your Ground", and Castle Doctrine - The Firing Line Forums
On the Lawful Presentation of a Firearm in a Defensive Encounter - The Firing Line Forums

old school

iTrader: (1)

I wanted to say something . But k thought Sam is going to chime in. Thanks Sam.
I must say I would hate yo have to shot someone . BUT if they are going to take my life. I'm shooting center mass to end the confrontation. I want to survive.
There is also the standard that the surviving thief attacker sues you for wounding him and wants three times what your worth. And lies at the trial. He is a criminal after all. What do you expect him to suddenly tell the truth in court??

NastyNate

iTrader: (1)

Definitely a very important concept and something I needed to hear. The USMC didn't teach us to stop threats, so to speak, and hearing that made a lot of sense. Hell, if it can be proven you intended to kill that sounds awfully close to premeditated murder.

On a side not I got my samson 4"free float hand guard extension and vltor low pro gas block installed today! Much comfier than the tiny 7" system I bout initially.

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

XMAS?
So did anybody score anything good? The "deals" for stuff never really materialized like I thought they were going to in general... PSA had their usual blowouts that I took advantage of in the form of buffer-tube kits and a couple PTAC oversized charging handles. I'm still paying off my reloading equipment, and have another $800 or so to go... so regular gun-stuff purchases will be slow to come until spring (just in time for me to deploy, poop).

A buddy of mine got a new Forster press from his wife (on my recommendation), so now I can do bulk with my Dillon and head over to his house for my precision rifle stuff. I almost scored a Lyman case prepper until the wife saw my PSA orders... gotta figure out how to hide that shiz!

Another local buddy got an annealing machine that I will have full access too... ****-me brass has gotten expensive.

Also, my local Walmart is STOCK ******* FULL of everything except .22lr. I've gotten to know the workers at both my local places and each store has at least 20-30 cases in the back that they don't have room on the shelves for. They even had a couple types of .22wmr, Federal .223 battle-boxes, WWB's 100ct's in all pistol calibers... back to normal except for .22lr.

supercooper

Heck yeah! Thats badass... im gonna have to check my walmart. I wish .22s werent so hard to get. I love to shoot for cheap. lol

I got a Judge with a 6 inch barrel. My Stepfather works for Central Wisconsin Firearms, so He gets everything at just $10 over cost. Got the judge for under $400. Usually the 6 inch judges go for around $800 or so. Ill post some pics asap. But heres this.. Basically the same gun

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

Why the Judge?

supercooper

Just always wanted one. Im not much of a Handgun guy... I have a Kimber .45 that i carry, and a .22 revolver with the .22LR and the .22Mag cylinders, i also have a Deringer .45colt/410 and always wanted a Gun of that caliber that could shoot more than 1 round.... so, intro the Judge. lol
So, now i have every pistol ive ever wanted. I can get back to my Rifle buying again. lmao

Besides... I wanna blow open Bathroom Stall doors with it like Max Payne did... LMAO

Splitime

iTrader: (24)

No gun toys for me, but I did get a heated ultrasonic cleaner that'll get jewelry/gun/car/moped part duty.

Burnout

Got a bunch of parts for my 300BLK build. My BIL's took my shopping list very seriously (family all chipped in), got all my high-dollar items:

Mega billet upper and lower receiver
Rainier 16" 1 in 8 300BLK barrel
Geissele Mk2 rail assembly
Geissele trigger group
CMMG upper and lower parts kits
AIM NiB BCG
Spike's gas tube

I'll pick up the remaining parts in the next month or so. I also got my dies for reloading 300BLK, and 200 new Hornady brass.

TurboTim

iTrader: (9)

My dad gave me some more 9mm wwb, by a Christmas miracle I was able to get him his Anderson lower by the 25th.

I also got one of those 555 count Winchester 22lr boxes (from dicks). The bullets are loose in the brass. I cannot pull the bullet out but they spin easily.

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

I'm pretty sure that about half of every .22lr round I ever cared to check also spun... nothin' to worry about.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

Anyone seen these? I'm intrigued. Basically combining the 80% AR lower trick with a polymer lower for easy home finishing. Really just requires a drill press.

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=sh...roduct_id=3971

NastyNate

iTrader: (1)

I bought myself a bueshnell 1-4, mount, lowpro gas block, handguard extention, and some frog lube.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

Home - Polymer 80 Percent Lowers

samnavy

iTrader: (7)

I think it's great, and I think polymer is only going to get more prevalent very quickly... in a few years, just about the only thing that'll still need to be metal is the barrel and firing pin.

But currently, an 80% polymer lower only sorta kinda maybe makes sense in the already communist states to keep your ownership off the books. The only problem is that when the "ban" on sales come, it will come with registration of existing weapons for grandfathering... or an outright "ban" on ownership as well. Failure to comply with registration will be a felony, and will mean that not only can you NOT take one to the range without proof of ownership (which ranges will want to see), but you can't ever use one for home defense because they're illegal to possess, and if you shoot somebody with one, it'll go badly in court for you. So you're fucked weather you make them yourself or buy them traditionally.

And even if the goal is to own a bunch so you can bury them in the backyard and wait for apocalypse/revolution when the government no longer matters, then it still makes sense to buy complete quality forged pieces since you'll be in a fire-fight with whatever 3-letter agency comes to take them away and won't give a ****... or the zombies.

You can buy Anderson or PSA lowers for $50, then find an FFL who will do $10 transfers for a batch of 10... about $650 with shipping for 10 forged lowers with only a single 4473 as "proof". You can do this in every state, although in Cali, it'll probably cost you more like $1200... and then just sit on them and wait.

It's a given that the technology will be there one day where polymer lowers are the equal to metal no matter what the politics... but for now, there simply aren't enough of them out there with high round counts to call them "reliable" over the roughly infinite number of rounds a forged lower is capable of. I've read that NewFrontier test ran a few prototypes for 10k rds on full-auto without a failure, and also seen guys with broken units before finishing off the first mag.

Bottom line... I am happy for the future of polymer in firearms, and am equally happy that I live in Virginia (despite who we just elected as governor). I'll take this opportunity to tell anyone who owns guns and isn't involved in a local grassroots effort of some kind is going to regret it.

All of you should be members of the NRA/NAGR/SAF at a minimum... and may I suggest everybody also join CALGUNS even if you don't live there.

TurboTim

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for the 22lr info Sam. And for the fanboy tactical link earlier in the thread. Having never held an ar part before, I am impressed with the apparent quality of the Anderson receiver, nothing obvious to do to make it better, manufacturing wise. Seems a steal for $60. PSA was out of them when I decided to buy.

I was thinking of buying some 80% lowers as paperweights. This one is more along my line:

http://www.theflatspot.net/ar-15-receiver-flat.html

Scrappy Jack

iTrader: (2)

.

Burnout

Are you saying that poly lowers for AR's don't require the paperwork that metal ones do? If that is the case, how does BATFE and all the other goose steppers determine what constitutes a firearm, or what type, since that is the only part that usually needs to be registered (unless of course, you're going for a SBR and/or suppressor)?
I agree. I'm a NRA life member, as well as an instructor, and belong to several shooting associations/organizations that are proponents of right to carry, and less restrictions on ownership.