Yet Another Gun Thread
05-12-2012, 03:06 PM
#2001
i live in northeast pennsylvania. there may or may not be a clear cut answer for this, but if anyone has any info, i'd be happy to see...here's my question(s).
i understand that if someone enters your home/apartment, you have the right to protect yourself and whomever lives with you from intruders.
does this extend to outside property?
does this extend to vehicles that are parked outside of the home that are on the property?
for example, if i see someone breaking into one of my cars, or god forbid, try to get one of them on a flatbed, are there laws or precedents or cases that state you may or may not open fire?
i understand that if someone enters your home/apartment, you have the right to protect yourself and whomever lives with you from intruders.
does this extend to outside property?
does this extend to vehicles that are parked outside of the home that are on the property?
for example, if i see someone breaking into one of my cars, or god forbid, try to get one of them on a flatbed, are there laws or precedents or cases that state you may or may not open fire?
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05-12-2012, 04:43 PM
#2002
Pennsylvania has a great Castle Doctrine and Stand-Your-Ground laws, but the two laws are about different things. Although they can overlap, do not confuse the two.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...5.005.000..HTM
§ 505. Use of force in self-protection.
(a) Use of force justifiable for protection of the person.--The use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion...
CASTLE DOCTRINE:
an actor is presumed to have a reasonable belief that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat if both of the following conditions exist:
(i) The person against whom the force is used is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcefully entered and is present within, a dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle; or the person against whom the force is used is or is attempting to unlawfully and forcefully remove another against that other's will from the dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle...
STAND YOUR GROUND:
(2.3) An actor who is not engaged in a criminal activity, who is not in illegal possession of a firearm and who is attacked in any place where the actor would have a duty to retreat under paragraph (2)(ii) has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and use force, including deadly force, if:
(i) the actor has a right to be in the place where he was attacked;
(ii) the actor believes it is immediately necessary to do so to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse by force or threat; and
(iii) the person against whom the force is used displays or otherwise uses:
(A) a firearm or replica of a firearm as defined in 42 Pa.C.S. § 9712 (relating to sentences for offenses committed with firearms); or
(B) any other weapon readily or apparently capable of lethal use.
BASICALLY:
In order to use lethal force against someone breaking into your car, THE CAR HAS TO BE OCCUPIED (ie, carjacking), no matter if it's on your property or not. The reason for this is because if the car is empty, the perp knows it's empty, and it would be impossible to prove he was trying to hurt somebody by breaking into an unoccupied car.
CASTLE DOCTRINE assumes the perp cannot possibly know if there is somebody somewhere in the house, and so that by entering the house, it is assumed that he is there to injure/kill anybody he finds... that's why you can immediately respond with deadly force within your own home... the law assumes the guy is there to hurt you, and not just steal something. Whereas with a clearly empty vehicle, it's clear he's just there to steal.
STAND YOUR GROUND, you must prove that the perp had the capability, and was about to (or already has) cause great bodily injury to yourself, and any action other than responding with deadly force would subject you to further harm.
There are more ins and outs, but I think I answered your question.
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...5.005.000..HTM
§ 505. Use of force in self-protection.
(a) Use of force justifiable for protection of the person.--The use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion...
CASTLE DOCTRINE:
an actor is presumed to have a reasonable belief that deadly force is immediately necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat if both of the following conditions exist:
(i) The person against whom the force is used is in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or has unlawfully and forcefully entered and is present within, a dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle; or the person against whom the force is used is or is attempting to unlawfully and forcefully remove another against that other's will from the dwelling, residence or occupied vehicle...
STAND YOUR GROUND:
(2.3) An actor who is not engaged in a criminal activity, who is not in illegal possession of a firearm and who is attacked in any place where the actor would have a duty to retreat under paragraph (2)(ii) has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and use force, including deadly force, if:
(i) the actor has a right to be in the place where he was attacked;
(ii) the actor believes it is immediately necessary to do so to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse by force or threat; and
(iii) the person against whom the force is used displays or otherwise uses:
(A) a firearm or replica of a firearm as defined in 42 Pa.C.S. § 9712 (relating to sentences for offenses committed with firearms); or
(B) any other weapon readily or apparently capable of lethal use.
BASICALLY:
In order to use lethal force against someone breaking into your car, THE CAR HAS TO BE OCCUPIED (ie, carjacking), no matter if it's on your property or not. The reason for this is because if the car is empty, the perp knows it's empty, and it would be impossible to prove he was trying to hurt somebody by breaking into an unoccupied car.
CASTLE DOCTRINE assumes the perp cannot possibly know if there is somebody somewhere in the house, and so that by entering the house, it is assumed that he is there to injure/kill anybody he finds... that's why you can immediately respond with deadly force within your own home... the law assumes the guy is there to hurt you, and not just steal something. Whereas with a clearly empty vehicle, it's clear he's just there to steal.
STAND YOUR GROUND, you must prove that the perp had the capability, and was about to (or already has) cause great bodily injury to yourself, and any action other than responding with deadly force would subject you to further harm.
There are more ins and outs, but I think I answered your question.
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05-14-2012, 10:05 PM
#2003
I couldn't help myself and dropped some cash on an AES-10b today. Got it, three 40 round mags and a quick detachable scope mount from classic arms. Should be here in a few days. I spent way too much but these things fly off the shelves in a day or two whenever they get in stock so I figured I couldn't really go wrong with the purchase. A couple of weeks ago I bought another 1,000 rounds of 7.62x39 but I can see myself ordering some more. This thing won't officially be mine until the barrel is smoking so lots of ammo is needed <G>. Hopefully the furniture isn't too damn ugly but if it is I might either make my own or buy one of the furniture kits out there.
not a pic of my rifle - just an example:
not a pic of my rifle - just an example:
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05-15-2012, 12:21 AM
#2004
Was watching Uncle Ted the other day and he was shooting one.
I've never seen the appeal, especially in the "looks" department of the AK style... but the bigger AK styles like that gun have a certain sexy about them. Maybe it's just because I hate wood furniture in general unless it's some very expensive exotic stuff straight from a rain-forest.
I've seen that gun for sale at ClassicArms for $600... let me know how it shoots... particularly, how far out can you shoot reliable 6" groups.
I've never seen the appeal, especially in the "looks" department of the AK style... but the bigger AK styles like that gun have a certain sexy about them. Maybe it's just because I hate wood furniture in general unless it's some very expensive exotic stuff straight from a rain-forest.
I've seen that gun for sale at ClassicArms for $600... let me know how it shoots... particularly, how far out can you shoot reliable 6" groups.
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05-15-2012, 12:29 AM
#2006
Maybe it's just because I hate wood furniture in general unless it's some very expensive exotic stuff straight from a rain-forest.
I've seen that gun for sale at ClassicArms for $600... let me know how it shoots... particularly, how far out can you shoot reliable 6" groups.
I've seen that gun for sale at ClassicArms for $600... let me know how it shoots... particularly, how far out can you shoot reliable 6" groups.
In theory it should be more accurate than a normal AK. I've got a friend with a regular AK and one that has the beefier barrel / receiver. We will have to run some tests.
Edit: I should have mentioned that I have seen it recently for $550 shipped (vs that approx $630 I spent at Classic Arms). I think the place that was selling for $550 sold out the 50 some units they had in 3 or 4 days. I was not aware of this until about 24 hours after they were all gone. I've seen this happen a few times and didn't want to risk not getting in on the gun this time so I paid the extra $$$.
Last edited by rmcelwee; 05-15-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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05-15-2012, 12:37 AM
#2007
CASTLE DOCTRINE assumes the perp cannot possibly know if there is somebody somewhere in the house, and so that by entering the house, it is assumed that he is there to injure/kill anybody he finds... that's why you can immediately respond with deadly force within your own home... the law assumes the guy is there to hurt you, and not just steal something. Whereas with a clearly empty vehicle, it's clear he's just there to steal.
STAND YOUR GROUND, you must prove that the perp had the capability, and was about to (or already has) cause great bodily injury to yourself, and any action other than responding with deadly force would subject you to further harm.
STAND YOUR GROUND, you must prove that the perp had the capability, and was about to (or already has) cause great bodily injury to yourself, and any action other than responding with deadly force would subject you to further harm.
In CCW class they taught that you need to make it known (yell at the top of your voice for example) that you feel threatened and are going to shoot. This would serve as evidence that you were standing your ground.
I spent two years on grand jury and we had a lot of B&E cases. If you break into someones house at night (vs daytime when no one is presumed at home) it is a felony. Similar to your empty vehicle example.
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05-15-2012, 08:37 AM
#2008
^Yup, every state is different, which makes it critical that you know the ins&outs of your state.
There are some great resources to learn about these laws on the internet.
The first resource is always Wikipedia. They've got really good pages on SYG and CD... plus pointers to the actual statutes for most states laws.
HANDGUNLAW.US and USACARRY.COM are others.
I belong to a Louisiana firearms forum called Bayoushooter.org that keeps me up to speed immediately on local stuff, and I check out TheFiringLine.com daily and browse their Law&CivilRights forum daily for all my national news and 2A legal action.
There is at least one good firearms forum in each state, I highly recommend everybody belong to one so you can keep up to speed on the action in your area. It's especially good to know what politicians in your area are doing to fight for your gun-rights, and which ones aren't.
There are some great resources to learn about these laws on the internet.
The first resource is always Wikipedia. They've got really good pages on SYG and CD... plus pointers to the actual statutes for most states laws.
HANDGUNLAW.US and USACARRY.COM are others.
I belong to a Louisiana firearms forum called Bayoushooter.org that keeps me up to speed immediately on local stuff, and I check out TheFiringLine.com daily and browse their Law&CivilRights forum daily for all my national news and 2A legal action.
There is at least one good firearms forum in each state, I highly recommend everybody belong to one so you can keep up to speed on the action in your area. It's especially good to know what politicians in your area are doing to fight for your gun-rights, and which ones aren't.
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05-16-2012, 04:13 PM
#2009
Mine: Springfield XDM 3.8 9mm
Wifes: Walther p22 blue. Does it make me ghey that I love shooting this thing? Prolly.
Snake Rifle: Savage mark II BTVS something or other.22
I've shot a bunch of handguns and then shot a CZ 75 I think....fell in love. 2 inch grouping at 20 feet after 6 months of not shooting. Collar me impressed. Will buy.
Friend of mine owns Delta Arms. They are mostly an AK/saiga converter. He's done some very nice Saiga 12's and rifles. I'm gonna have him build me a Saiga 5.45 (Ammo is dirt cheap) and put some nice furniture on it....maybe build another tac looking one...sooo many choices.
Wifes: Walther p22 blue. Does it make me ghey that I love shooting this thing? Prolly.
Snake Rifle: Savage mark II BTVS something or other.22
I've shot a bunch of handguns and then shot a CZ 75 I think....fell in love. 2 inch grouping at 20 feet after 6 months of not shooting. Collar me impressed. Will buy.
Friend of mine owns Delta Arms. They are mostly an AK/saiga converter. He's done some very nice Saiga 12's and rifles. I'm gonna have him build me a Saiga 5.45 (Ammo is dirt cheap) and put some nice furniture on it....maybe build another tac looking one...sooo many choices.
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05-17-2012, 10:49 AM
#2012
It shoots very nice also, very accurate, action is very smooth and the trigger is butta and is adjustable.
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05-17-2012, 10:27 PM
#2015
^I ordered a New Frontier Armory complete lower... $99. I had it about 2 months, never took it out of the plastic. My local gun-forum, BayouShooter.com had a couple group buys on them through JoeBobOutfitters. About half the guys who ordered them (of about 50 or more guys) had immediate failures within a few magazines. A couple guys had the safety-selector switch fall out of the gun the first time they selected FIRE. Just about everybody says the take-down pins are only good for 2-3 removals of the upper before they're useless. Quite a few trigger-group failures... and a few random others.
A few guys on the forum kept track and figured there was a 40%+ chance of some kind of show-stopping failure within 100rds. There are about a dozen guys who claim 1000rds and still counting after a few months.
Coincidentally, about a month after JoeBobs started blowing these things out, NewFrontier came out with their GenII... supposedly fixing a few things that were wrong with the original setup. The lower receiver itself is the same, but some of the internals have been changed.
On the whole, I would pass on the polymer lowers, but guns aren't necessarily a hobby for me. My firearms are tools and I don't have the drive or funds to "experiment", so my purchases have to be smart and purposeful. I think I learned my lesson buying that lower... when I do decide to build an AR, I'll put price much further down on the list of considerations... but considering the current prices of stuff and the absurd asking prices for entry level complete rifles, it's going to be awhile.
Right now, CDNN is selling Mini-14's shipped for under $600 in a couple different configurations. If I decide I have to have a .223 semi-auto in the next 6 months, that's the route I'll take.
A few guys on the forum kept track and figured there was a 40%+ chance of some kind of show-stopping failure within 100rds. There are about a dozen guys who claim 1000rds and still counting after a few months.
Coincidentally, about a month after JoeBobs started blowing these things out, NewFrontier came out with their GenII... supposedly fixing a few things that were wrong with the original setup. The lower receiver itself is the same, but some of the internals have been changed.
On the whole, I would pass on the polymer lowers, but guns aren't necessarily a hobby for me. My firearms are tools and I don't have the drive or funds to "experiment", so my purchases have to be smart and purposeful. I think I learned my lesson buying that lower... when I do decide to build an AR, I'll put price much further down on the list of considerations... but considering the current prices of stuff and the absurd asking prices for entry level complete rifles, it's going to be awhile.
Right now, CDNN is selling Mini-14's shipped for under $600 in a couple different configurations. If I decide I have to have a .223 semi-auto in the next 6 months, that's the route I'll take.
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05-17-2012, 11:10 PM
#2016
I've got a few hundred rounds through this http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_Y with 0 problems. Thought about assembling an AR, but couldn't beat $600 from my local gun shop.
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05-18-2012, 08:32 PM
#2019
Do you still have to ship Taurus's to Brazil for warranty work?
I've only shot 1 Taurus, it was a Judge. Neat idea, but terribly clunky, and would fail to fire at least once per cylinder. It had an issue with light primer strikes, didn't matter if it was .410 or .45 LC, out of 5 rounds at least one wouldn't fire. Never had a failure to fire with any revolver I've shot - Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Dan Wesson, or Colt.
I've only shot 1 Taurus, it was a Judge. Neat idea, but terribly clunky, and would fail to fire at least once per cylinder. It had an issue with light primer strikes, didn't matter if it was .410 or .45 LC, out of 5 rounds at least one wouldn't fire. Never had a failure to fire with any revolver I've shot - Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Dan Wesson, or Colt.
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05-18-2012, 10:01 PM
#2020
.38spl?
Our Academy has the 85UL in .38spl for $279... I'm just about ready to pull the trigger. I really want a .357 in a 3" barrel for part-time carry duty, but the price is cost prohibitive.
If CDNN still has any Taurus .327 Federal Magnums when they release their next catalog, I'm going to get one.
Our Academy has the 85UL in .38spl for $279... I'm just about ready to pull the trigger. I really want a .357 in a 3" barrel for part-time carry duty, but the price is cost prohibitive.
If CDNN still has any Taurus .327 Federal Magnums when they release their next catalog, I'm going to get one.
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