Old Skool Let's make fun of Tom@FFS thread..
wow this guy is the typical "wine-and-cheeze'r"
04-02-2009, 11:22 PM
#22
Cpt. Slow
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His gauges, gps, and radar probably added up to he 29.5 lbs he saved by not using an intercooler.
I liked the beginning where it was making that incredibly annoying sound and barely catching up to the traffic in front of him.
I liked the beginning where it was making that incredibly annoying sound and barely catching up to the traffic in front of him.
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04-03-2009, 12:04 AM
#26
Newb
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The supercharger wine was annoying because of the poor quality sound of the camera. The top was down which amplified the traffic noise in the background made things even more annoying. Trust me, its the camera, my SC doesn't get on my nerves at all like that.
I agree he was over exaggerating a bit, but he IS an engineer and chances are he's answers are more educated if not an educated guess. With SC guys its not about sheer power mind you.
No **** about a good turbo tune makes more power than a good SC tune AND for cheaper. SC's are about power delivery.
Railz on this forum got his car tuned via MS with a DIY turbo kit. He's making 168rwhp or something with full exahust and intercooled. I have the stock ECU with crappy band aid mods for my old *** M45 kit. I egg'd him into a drag already knowing he would smoke me, but I was just curious how our power bands differed. From the start, even with a 260lb passenger, I was a little ahead. But from high second and on he was pulling away. Wasn't an immediate pull, about a full 1 1/2 miata length ahead as we were going up a bridge. Even if I didn't have a passenger he wouldn't have pulled on me as hard, but still I would've got smoked no question.
Point is most SC guys go SC for response and power band. If I cared about making at least 200rwhp i'd go turbo or a high end SC kit which would kill my wallet. Turbo's have good power bands too but for SC's it seems to be the priority.
What Tom said about the thousand of dollars to up turbo boost wasn't true, I feel you guys there. Even the educated can be incorrect about products they themselves have not tried nor owned.
I occasionally drive touge roads so response is my priority. I have more low end than a friend with an SR20 making 250rwhp. He gets me in the high speed sections but on second or even first gear turns he ALWAYS bogs down his motor and he's a damn good driver.
In reality its different strokes for different miata owners. There are instances where turbo is more benificial than SC and vise versa. There are even situations were staying NA making 180rwhp and spending muy cake to do that is more benificial than turbo or SC. There's no one size fits all solution, imo.
Even tho its a turbo forum I still find useful info regarding MS, injectors, etc. I like how you have useful links and DIY threads. If I had the money i'd have 3 miata's, 2 FI and 1 making NA power, but thats just me.
I agree he was over exaggerating a bit, but he IS an engineer and chances are he's answers are more educated if not an educated guess. With SC guys its not about sheer power mind you.
No **** about a good turbo tune makes more power than a good SC tune AND for cheaper. SC's are about power delivery.
Railz on this forum got his car tuned via MS with a DIY turbo kit. He's making 168rwhp or something with full exahust and intercooled. I have the stock ECU with crappy band aid mods for my old *** M45 kit. I egg'd him into a drag already knowing he would smoke me, but I was just curious how our power bands differed. From the start, even with a 260lb passenger, I was a little ahead. But from high second and on he was pulling away. Wasn't an immediate pull, about a full 1 1/2 miata length ahead as we were going up a bridge. Even if I didn't have a passenger he wouldn't have pulled on me as hard, but still I would've got smoked no question.
Point is most SC guys go SC for response and power band. If I cared about making at least 200rwhp i'd go turbo or a high end SC kit which would kill my wallet. Turbo's have good power bands too but for SC's it seems to be the priority.
What Tom said about the thousand of dollars to up turbo boost wasn't true, I feel you guys there. Even the educated can be incorrect about products they themselves have not tried nor owned.
I occasionally drive touge roads so response is my priority. I have more low end than a friend with an SR20 making 250rwhp. He gets me in the high speed sections but on second or even first gear turns he ALWAYS bogs down his motor and he's a damn good driver.
In reality its different strokes for different miata owners. There are instances where turbo is more benificial than SC and vise versa. There are even situations were staying NA making 180rwhp and spending muy cake to do that is more benificial than turbo or SC. There's no one size fits all solution, imo.
Even tho its a turbo forum I still find useful info regarding MS, injectors, etc. I like how you have useful links and DIY threads. If I had the money i'd have 3 miata's, 2 FI and 1 making NA power, but thats just me.
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04-03-2009, 12:12 AM
#27
Unfortunately for Tom, the pretense for which he uses this fact is completely false. Once you tack on additional hardware like a supercharger which totally changes intake tract characteristics (even out of boost), all the tuning that Mazda has done is laid to waste. The ONLY thing that's good from the stock calibration is the idle speed control.
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04-03-2009, 12:17 AM
#29
Tour de Franzia
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The supercharger wine was annoying because of the poor quality sound of the camera. The top was down which amplified the traffic noise in the background made things even more annoying. Trust me, its the camera, my SC doesn't get on my nerves at all like that.
I agree he was over exaggerating a bit, but he IS an engineer and chances are he's answers are more educated if not an educated guess. With SC guys its not about sheer power mind you.
No **** about a good turbo tune makes more power than a good SC tune AND for cheaper. SC's are about power delivery.
Railz on this forum got his car tuned via MS with a DIY turbo kit. He's making 168rwhp or something with full exahust and intercooled. I have the stock ECU with crappy band aid mods for my old *** M45 kit. I egg'd him into a drag already knowing he would smoke me, but I was just curious how our power bands differed. From the start, even with a 260lb passenger, I was a little ahead. But from high second and on he was pulling away. Wasn't an immediate pull, about a full 1 1/2 miata length ahead as we were going up a bridge. Even if I didn't have a passenger he wouldn't have pulled on me as hard, but still I would've got smoked no question.
Point is most SC guys go SC for response and power band. If I cared about making at least 200rwhp i'd go turbo or a high end SC kit which would kill my wallet. Turbo's have good power bands too but for SC's it seems to be the priority.
What Tom said about the thousand of dollars to up turbo boost wasn't true, I feel you guys there. Even the educated can be incorrect about products they themselves have not tried nor owned.
I occasionally drive touge roads so response is my priority. I have more low end than a friend with an SR20 making 250rwhp. He gets me in the high speed sections but on second or even first gear turns he ALWAYS bogs down his motor and he's a damn good driver.
In reality its different strokes for different miata owners. There are instances where turbo is more benificial than SC and vise versa. There are even situations were staying NA making 180rwhp and spending muy cake to do that is more benificial than turbo or SC. There's no one size fits all solution, imo.
Even tho its a turbo forum I still find useful info regarding MS, injectors, etc. I like how you have useful links and DIY threads. If I had the money i'd have 3 miata's, 2 FI and 1 making NA power, but thats just me.
I agree he was over exaggerating a bit, but he IS an engineer and chances are he's answers are more educated if not an educated guess. With SC guys its not about sheer power mind you.
No **** about a good turbo tune makes more power than a good SC tune AND for cheaper. SC's are about power delivery.
Railz on this forum got his car tuned via MS with a DIY turbo kit. He's making 168rwhp or something with full exahust and intercooled. I have the stock ECU with crappy band aid mods for my old *** M45 kit. I egg'd him into a drag already knowing he would smoke me, but I was just curious how our power bands differed. From the start, even with a 260lb passenger, I was a little ahead. But from high second and on he was pulling away. Wasn't an immediate pull, about a full 1 1/2 miata length ahead as we were going up a bridge. Even if I didn't have a passenger he wouldn't have pulled on me as hard, but still I would've got smoked no question.
Point is most SC guys go SC for response and power band. If I cared about making at least 200rwhp i'd go turbo or a high end SC kit which would kill my wallet. Turbo's have good power bands too but for SC's it seems to be the priority.
What Tom said about the thousand of dollars to up turbo boost wasn't true, I feel you guys there. Even the educated can be incorrect about products they themselves have not tried nor owned.
I occasionally drive touge roads so response is my priority. I have more low end than a friend with an SR20 making 250rwhp. He gets me in the high speed sections but on second or even first gear turns he ALWAYS bogs down his motor and he's a damn good driver.
In reality its different strokes for different miata owners. There are instances where turbo is more benificial than SC and vise versa. There are even situations were staying NA making 180rwhp and spending muy cake to do that is more benificial than turbo or SC. There's no one size fits all solution, imo.
Even tho its a turbo forum I still find useful info regarding MS, injectors, etc. I like how you have useful links and DIY threads. If I had the money i'd have 3 miata's, 2 FI and 1 making NA power, but thats just me.
Even if he "is an engineer" he's a "******* retard" and wrong all the ******* time...and most likely a virgin too.
SC power delivery is about power and torque never delivering.
168whp is ******* sad. Its even more sad if that's on a dynojet. You're sad.
No one gives a **** about "throttle response and powerband" myth. Everyone here put down a prettier dyno than yours, and we don't care that SC people think "no torque" is "awesome" because it never feels like the car moves.
Your friend with the 240 is not a good driver, because no "good driver" has ever driven a 240. 250whp on a ricer dyno in a big, bloated 240 is not fast, and never will be.
You've never driven a "touge" road because "you're a ------" and never driven in Japan, and you're probably one of those ******** who thinks he's Schumacher because he bought a pre-release ticket to a fast and furious movie and drove up a mountain road.
There is a "one-size fits all" solution and its called you not posting on this forum anymore. We have better **** to do with our time than read your bullshit SC/turbo comparison because everyone here is more intelligent than you, better looking, and has larger genitals.
/owning
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04-03-2009, 12:19 AM
#30
Tour de Franzia
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Nerd Note: It is true that OEMs spend thousands of hours getting the ECU calibration ("ECU tuning" as referred to by real injuneers i.e. unlike Tom@FFS) right. Most of that time is spent testing the robustness of the calibration under all variations of atmospheric conditions and drive cycles. While you might have spent two hours getting a basic fuel map, drive up to Colorado and watch how poorly your car will run. Emissions compliance also eats up a huge majority of calibration engineering hours.
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04-03-2009, 01:01 AM
#38
Tour de Franzia
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keep going on and on about the difference between blowers and turboz becuz wheeve n3v@r endured this bullshit ricer garbage before. Seriously, its such a cutting edge, fresh topic that you should use more bandwidth discussing it.
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