Baseline MSQ for '99-00, including Abe's Board
10-05-2009, 03:38 PM
#101
Thanks for the idea on setting the CL idle, but this is relating to PWM warmup. If i set it lower than 28.9, it doesnt react.
It's as if 28.9 is the point it opens up. Anything lower, the idle valve wont move, and the idle doesnt change. 0%, 5%, 10%, 15%, it still stays the same. At 30% is when it moves.
Could it be due to the frequency setting that I have that makes it work at a lower resolution?
It's as if 28.9 is the point it opens up. Anything lower, the idle valve wont move, and the idle doesnt change. 0%, 5%, 10%, 15%, it still stays the same. At 30% is when it moves.
Could it be due to the frequency setting that I have that makes it work at a lower resolution?
Last edited by Marc D; 10-05-2009 at 03:49 PM.
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10-05-2009, 03:48 PM
#102
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I use "8" for the multiplier, and it works.
What I'm thinking is somehow your numbers are sticking. Remember, whenever there is a chance, blame the MS software. It'll generally fix your problem. My *guess* is this number is being used, even though you're not in that mode. When you can, try bumping the numbers to 0 and 100% (lo and hi) and see if it helps. If not, back to the drawing board.
But I wouldn't rule it out till you try it. (i.e. set the numbers, burn it, power cycle, check they stuck, set it back to warm up, burn it, see if it fixes it)
What I'm thinking is somehow your numbers are sticking. Remember, whenever there is a chance, blame the MS software. It'll generally fix your problem. My *guess* is this number is being used, even though you're not in that mode. When you can, try bumping the numbers to 0 and 100% (lo and hi) and see if it helps. If not, back to the drawing board.
But I wouldn't rule it out till you try it. (i.e. set the numbers, burn it, power cycle, check they stuck, set it back to warm up, burn it, see if it fixes it)
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10-05-2009, 07:47 PM
#104
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I would not venture out of betas unless you REALLY like to debug. Several of the stable releases have had some pretty major issues, betas are worse and alphas are really just for experimenting.
I like to keep up on the latest, but I also like to read the forums after a new release comes out for a few weeks to see what STOPPED working.
BTW, has anyone tested AC yet? My friend's car's isn't working, which is pretty funny since it was on his car I developed the circuit in the first place.
I like to keep up on the latest, but I also like to read the forums after a new release comes out for a few weeks to see what STOPPED working.
BTW, has anyone tested AC yet? My friend's car's isn't working, which is pretty funny since it was on his car I developed the circuit in the first place.
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10-05-2009, 07:55 PM
#105
I would not venture out of betas unless you REALLY like to debug. Several of the stable releases have had some pretty major issues, betas are worse and alphas are really just for experimenting.
I like to keep up on the latest, but I also like to read the forums after a new release comes out for a few weeks to see what STOPPED working.
BTW, has anyone tested AC yet? My friend's car's isn't working, which is pretty funny since it was on his car I developed the circuit in the first place.
I like to keep up on the latest, but I also like to read the forums after a new release comes out for a few weeks to see what STOPPED working.
BTW, has anyone tested AC yet? My friend's car's isn't working, which is pretty funny since it was on his car I developed the circuit in the first place.
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10-06-2009, 12:42 PM
#108
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Marc,
Another thought on the dropping out thing, it's unlikely, but... There's a chance your dwell on the COPS is too short. Another friend had issues up top (seems counter intuitive) and it turned out his dwells were just a bit short. You can add a ms or two to them, see if it helps, and if not, put it back. You certainly won't hurt anything that way.
Any luck with the idle valve?
Another thought on the dropping out thing, it's unlikely, but... There's a chance your dwell on the COPS is too short. Another friend had issues up top (seems counter intuitive) and it turned out his dwells were just a bit short. You can add a ms or two to them, see if it helps, and if not, put it back. You certainly won't hurt anything that way.
Any luck with the idle valve?
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10-06-2009, 04:18 PM
#109
ill go ahead and try that. I doubt its dwell since the drops are due to teeth sync drops, but im willing to try anything at this point.
As for the idle, No luck. It acts really weird. I got it to actually move from 28.9, but now from the crank idle, it goes straight right up to the highest valve opening setting. I set the max open valve open was set to 60% PWM DC, and it goes straight to that right after it starts.
But heres the kicker. THe idle valve doesnt respond to any of those changes. WTF is up with that? its as if its locked in PWM warm up or something.
As for the idle, No luck. It acts really weird. I got it to actually move from 28.9, but now from the crank idle, it goes straight right up to the highest valve opening setting. I set the max open valve open was set to 60% PWM DC, and it goes straight to that right after it starts.
But heres the kicker. THe idle valve doesnt respond to any of those changes. WTF is up with that? its as if its locked in PWM warm up or something.
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10-06-2009, 04:25 PM
#110
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I hate to say it, are you still running the alpha code? Its frustrating and slow, but getting the car running solid on release code is probably the smartest thing. Once you have settings you know you trust and can fall back on in times of need, then you can play to your heart's content.
It's unlikely it's the cops, but it's an easy fix if it works. The idea is a significant timing error could show up BECAUSE you misfired, and the next crank tooth came later than expected. Unlikely but what the hey. :-)
So, you crank at 60% like I do? It seems to be software that's the issue, though. Wait, are you running "pwm warmup"? I don't even want to START on all the issues with CL idle. It can be made to work, but you really have to sit down and read the forums for like two days to even make a good start - there are so many interactions between the settings. If you're sure the idle valve works, works in warmup mode, then start a thread on CL Idle in MS-II and we can talk it to death. Every once in a while I try to get this working, but the first step is making sure the valve works.
It's unlikely it's the cops, but it's an easy fix if it works. The idea is a significant timing error could show up BECAUSE you misfired, and the next crank tooth came later than expected. Unlikely but what the hey. :-)
So, you crank at 60% like I do? It seems to be software that's the issue, though. Wait, are you running "pwm warmup"? I don't even want to START on all the issues with CL idle. It can be made to work, but you really have to sit down and read the forums for like two days to even make a good start - there are so many interactions between the settings. If you're sure the idle valve works, works in warmup mode, then start a thread on CL Idle in MS-II and we can talk it to death. Every once in a while I try to get this working, but the first step is making sure the valve works.
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10-06-2009, 04:26 PM
#111
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What code are you running? Remember, if there's no feature you want in the newer code, there is NO reason to run it. People like to upgrade just to upgrade - remember the goal, an awesome running car. :-)
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10-06-2009, 04:47 PM
#112
Yea, I still am running the alpha code. I'm going to hold off on flashing the firmware until I get back home, just as insurance so that if the flash ***** something up, I wont be stranded a hundred miles away from home.
It definitely could be the alpha code is crap. Im going to try to downgrade to the 2.1.1b beta code. The CL idle in the release code, from what I've read in the msextra forums, doesnt work quite well, and they made some refinements in the 2.1.1b beta code. I'll try to use that one to see if that alleviates the problem.
As for the idle settings, at hot temperatures, I set my car to start at 49% then taper off at slowly at 4 seconds. Its a good set, No real problems, and its a better idea than setting it to straight +60 IMO. The four seconds is good to make sure and allow the car has started up fully before it settles down to the set DC in the PWM warm up DC.
Information: i set my idle screw to open at 850-900 with the idle valve fully closed. This is where the "28.9%" setting sits. If i try to move the DC smaller than 29%, no changes happens. It sits at the same idle. If it goes up to 30.9 through DC changes, the idle goes up.
It definitely could be the alpha code is crap. Im going to try to downgrade to the 2.1.1b beta code. The CL idle in the release code, from what I've read in the msextra forums, doesnt work quite well, and they made some refinements in the 2.1.1b beta code. I'll try to use that one to see if that alleviates the problem.
As for the idle settings, at hot temperatures, I set my car to start at 49% then taper off at slowly at 4 seconds. Its a good set, No real problems, and its a better idea than setting it to straight +60 IMO. The four seconds is good to make sure and allow the car has started up fully before it settles down to the set DC in the PWM warm up DC.
Information: i set my idle screw to open at 850-900 with the idle valve fully closed. This is where the "28.9%" setting sits. If i try to move the DC smaller than 29%, no changes happens. It sits at the same idle. If it goes up to 30.9 through DC changes, the idle goes up.
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10-06-2009, 04:56 PM
#113
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I guess just keep us posted. I don't know about this funky valve no closing thing.
As to the tapering down thing, I generally keep mine on 0 seconds. 1 works well but is noisy. I would do 0.300-0.500 seconds if they would let me, but they don't. My car starts, revs high for a split second, then drops right to a perfect 950 rpm smooth flat idle with just a hint of BOV sound. It's funny the turbo could spool from starting.
Off topic: You should go the the 24 Hours of Lemons next month (weekend before thanksgiving). I'm heading over, I missed the one here but apparently it's pretty amazing. If you make it, I can apologize in person for screwing up your car. :-)
As to the tapering down thing, I generally keep mine on 0 seconds. 1 works well but is noisy. I would do 0.300-0.500 seconds if they would let me, but they don't. My car starts, revs high for a split second, then drops right to a perfect 950 rpm smooth flat idle with just a hint of BOV sound. It's funny the turbo could spool from starting.
Off topic: You should go the the 24 Hours of Lemons next month (weekend before thanksgiving). I'm heading over, I missed the one here but apparently it's pretty amazing. If you make it, I can apologize in person for screwing up your car. :-)
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10-06-2009, 05:00 PM
#114
Lol, no problem man.
Unfortunately, my car doesnt like to "drop" to the right RPM, but I could try it again. I kept it like that because the whole idle fiasco we had, but I haven't had any problems with it. Ill try to do that again.
Yea, Ill let you know what happens as soon as the other firmware gets flashed.
THe 24hr Lemon's? Is that at laguna? I think my buddy told me about it, and he was recently invited to run along with one of his RX7 buddies at the track. He invited me as well, I might have to take the miata for a spin ^_^
Unfortunately, my car doesnt like to "drop" to the right RPM, but I could try it again. I kept it like that because the whole idle fiasco we had, but I haven't had any problems with it. Ill try to do that again.
Yea, Ill let you know what happens as soon as the other firmware gets flashed.
THe 24hr Lemon's? Is that at laguna? I think my buddy told me about it, and he was recently invited to run along with one of his RX7 buddies at the track. He invited me as well, I might have to take the miata for a spin ^_^
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10-06-2009, 05:59 PM
#117
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To participate? Don't do it unless youre willing to lose your car - they can and do destroy them just for sun. :-) $500 entry fee per team, $100 per driver (need at least 4), $500 (haha) for the car, plus roll cage, wheels, tires, etc. It's not super cheap, but it's pretty cheap for what you get to do. My friend ran (and got a trophy) in the one here in a souped up mini, said it was the most fun thing he ever did.
If I could drive, I'd help. :-)
If I could drive, I'd help. :-)
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10-07-2009, 01:09 PM
#120
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Is anyone running a Knocksense MS?
You guys really need to get them. I know no one wants to spend another $70, but it's way cheaper than a set of rods. :-)
If you do, be sure and tell Boris you don't need the connector, I'll see if I can't get him to knock $5 off since he doesn't have to include some wire and the connector, etc.
You guys really need to get them. I know no one wants to spend another $70, but it's way cheaper than a set of rods. :-)
If you do, be sure and tell Boris you don't need the connector, I'll see if I can't get him to knock $5 off since he doesn't have to include some wire and the connector, etc.
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