Bought a car, tune is completely borked. Halp?
10-10-2013, 07:54 PM
#61
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You're right to be suspicious of so much "D." Should be able to do this with almost no "D."
Assume you've seen the following:
Idle Control
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...request-59027/
What you are doing sounds correct with two exceptions:
1. When you start, set all values to 0 so you can get a good "I" value without interference from anything else.
2. Make sure you are not oscillating at the end of every step. You should not accept oscillation and then crank in a bunch of "D" at the end to mask it.
In the log you posted this morning, I see some Idle DC steps in the 0.4% range and each step is clearly causing a MAP change. I don't see any issue there.
You may be confusing what Idle DC changes. Idle DC changes MAP. MAP eventually changes RPM (with about a 1 second lag when we are at idle RPM). That is why this is challenging and why you need to treat your gains gingerly.
Assume you've seen the following:
Idle Control
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...request-59027/
What you are doing sounds correct with two exceptions:
1. When you start, set all values to 0 so you can get a good "I" value without interference from anything else.
2. Make sure you are not oscillating at the end of every step. You should not accept oscillation and then crank in a bunch of "D" at the end to mask it.
In the log you posted this morning, I see some Idle DC steps in the 0.4% range and each step is clearly causing a MAP change. I don't see any issue there.
You may be confusing what Idle DC changes. Idle DC changes MAP. MAP eventually changes RPM (with about a 1 second lag when we are at idle RPM). That is why this is challenging and why you need to treat your gains gingerly.
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10-11-2013, 07:48 AM
#64
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almost every MS I've tuned needs a lot of D with their code. for both boost and idle.
I cant remember what I'm using off hand, however. But I think my P&I (on my ms3x) is very similar and my D might be in the 50-80% range.
But the glsender code is a huge improvement over the standard, and there's a lot of extras you can tune to finesse your tune. I suggest reading through the gslender documents; it's pretty in depth on how exactly to tune that code and all the extra parameters you can tune. Like the voltage dc% compensation, and the active idle advance code.
With this code your CL code should be driving you to your target and then it's your timing advance that should be controlling and maintaining your idle speed, not your idle valve.
I cant remember what I'm using off hand, however. But I think my P&I (on my ms3x) is very similar and my D might be in the 50-80% range.
But the glsender code is a huge improvement over the standard, and there's a lot of extras you can tune to finesse your tune. I suggest reading through the gslender documents; it's pretty in depth on how exactly to tune that code and all the extra parameters you can tune. Like the voltage dc% compensation, and the active idle advance code.
With this code your CL code should be driving you to your target and then it's your timing advance that should be controlling and maintaining your idle speed, not your idle valve.
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10-14-2013, 01:07 AM
#65
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almost every MS I've tuned needs a lot of D with their code. for both boost and idle.
I cant remember what I'm using off hand, however. But I think my P&I (on my ms3x) is very similar and my D might be in the 50-80% range.
But the glsender code is a huge improvement over the standard, and there's a lot of extras you can tune to finesse your tune. I suggest reading through the gslender documents; it's pretty in depth on how exactly to tune that code and all the extra parameters you can tune. Like the voltage dc% compensation, and the active idle advance code.
With this code your CL code should be driving you to your target and then it's your timing advance that should be controlling and maintaining your idle speed, not your idle valve.
I cant remember what I'm using off hand, however. But I think my P&I (on my ms3x) is very similar and my D might be in the 50-80% range.
But the glsender code is a huge improvement over the standard, and there's a lot of extras you can tune to finesse your tune. I suggest reading through the gslender documents; it's pretty in depth on how exactly to tune that code and all the extra parameters you can tune. Like the voltage dc% compensation, and the active idle advance code.
With this code your CL code should be driving you to your target and then it's your timing advance that should be controlling and maintaining your idle speed, not your idle valve.
Update:
Playing with idle advance, I set it to adaptive and use set value. It seems to help a little, but I also started playing with the idle ve table. The setting looks like a linear -ax line. Is this normal?
I also fixed my off idle stumble by adjusting tpsdot to 42%/s and rate to 0.1 sec.
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10-14-2013, 09:47 AM
#66
Setting all idle advance cells to either a constant value or to "bucket" you into a target RPM is pretty important for stable idle.
I found that setting idle VE cells to a constant value helped during initial idle tuning because it was just "one less thing." But once you're stable and prefer to target a specific AFR in idle, the VE values vary. It's pretty dependent upon external conditions. Once you're nice and solid, you can even enable closed loop in the idle range to help if you need to pass emissions.
I found that setting idle VE cells to a constant value helped during initial idle tuning because it was just "one less thing." But once you're stable and prefer to target a specific AFR in idle, the VE values vary. It's pretty dependent upon external conditions. Once you're nice and solid, you can even enable closed loop in the idle range to help if you need to pass emissions.
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10-16-2013, 02:13 PM
#67
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Another update:
Still having trouble with a bucking/hesitation upon throttle tip in from closed loop idle and a pinging at WOT.
hesitation only happens from a closed loop idle and with low throttle application, such as slowly leaving an intersection.
Pinging only happens at WOT and from peak torque and higher rpm. Low timing values are being employed (~16 degrees at ~190kpa map) and known good gas used.
Still having trouble with a bucking/hesitation upon throttle tip in from closed loop idle and a pinging at WOT.
hesitation only happens from a closed loop idle and with low throttle application, such as slowly leaving an intersection.
Pinging only happens at WOT and from peak torque and higher rpm. Low timing values are being employed (~16 degrees at ~190kpa map) and known good gas used.
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10-20-2013, 03:14 PM
#69
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Okay, still need some guidance. I made some det cans and went for a few pulls. The ping I am hearing is definitely detonation, but I can't figure out why. My AFR is good, my spark is conservative, it just makes no sense.
I took a few logs and the entire file is attached as well as a screen shot.
Here is my spark table:
Here is a capture of the log:
I took a few logs and the entire file is attached as well as a screen shot.
Here is my spark table:
Here is a capture of the log:
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10-20-2013, 06:01 PM
#71
Is the ping like it was before, starting around 4-5000? Or has it moved to higher RPM? I think your ramp at high RPM is too aggressive.
I agree that your timing below 5700 is pretty conservative. Still, I'd back of timing and run a constant value into the high RPMs until you're det free. Let's see where it ends up.
Is your camshaft timing adjustable? Are you sure about the engine's CR?
I agree that your timing below 5700 is pretty conservative. Still, I'd back of timing and run a constant value into the high RPMs until you're det free. Let's see where it ends up.
Is your camshaft timing adjustable? Are you sure about the engine's CR?
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10-20-2013, 06:14 PM
#72
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Is the ping like it was before, starting around 4-5000? Or has it moved to higher RPM? I think your ramp at high RPM is too aggressive.
I agree that your timing below 5700 is pretty conservative. Still, I'd back of timing and run a constant value into the high RPMs until you're det free. Let's see where it ends up.
Is your camshaft timing adjustable? Are you sure about the engine's CR?
I agree that your timing below 5700 is pretty conservative. Still, I'd back of timing and run a constant value into the high RPMs until you're det free. Let's see where it ends up.
Is your camshaft timing adjustable? Are you sure about the engine's CR?
The camshaft timing is not adjustable and I am positive the CR is 9:1. It has JE pistons which only come in one CR.
I'll lower the timing above 5300 to a uniform number ~13*
Still, looking at other's timing tables I can't figure out why it would need less.
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10-20-2013, 06:26 PM
#73
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I have been going 'round and 'round in my head trying to figure this out.
Fuel is good. Good AFR (in the low 11's)
Engine is mechanically in time with pulley and MS is offset to match
IAT stays below 90* no matter what, usually between 60-70*F
Spark table is weak compared to most in here
Toyota COPS with new 7 heat range plugs gapped at .031"
Dwell set at 2.5ms maximum (MS2)
Maybe I have a bad set of coils?
Fuel is good. Good AFR (in the low 11's)
Engine is mechanically in time with pulley and MS is offset to match
IAT stays below 90* no matter what, usually between 60-70*F
Spark table is weak compared to most in here
Toyota COPS with new 7 heat range plugs gapped at .031"
Dwell set at 2.5ms maximum (MS2)
Maybe I have a bad set of coils?
Last edited by vteckiller2000; 10-21-2013 at 12:20 AM.
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10-20-2013, 06:53 PM
#74
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I just dropped the spark advance to 10* in the 183kpa row (which is where my operating boost is) and it still pinged. I was afraid to retard it any further. The ping occurs randomly at all rpms after boost onset.
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10-22-2013, 12:09 PM
#78
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I'm sure that I am hearing it correctly, it sounds like glass marbles bouncing off a concrete slab repeatedly. I am about to trailer this car to FM or Begi so they can have their way with it.
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10-22-2013, 04:30 PM
#79
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Is it possible to have good AFR on the gauge, but have insufficient fuel pressure from the pump or regulator? I do not know if the pump is a genuine Walbro or a knockoff, and I also do not know the condition of the fuel pressure regulator.
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10-22-2013, 04:47 PM
#80
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Anything is possible. I had an AEM sensor go apeshit on me before and take tons of fuel out of my tune while autotuning until the car ran like complete horseshit. Then the next day (after reverting my map) the afr's were spot on. I ended up replacing that sensor and all is well.
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