Dyno Tuning, Take a Look FM we want your timingz
03-22-2008, 04:23 PM
#1
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Dyno Tuning, Take a Look FM we want your timingz
I learned a lot today.
First... the Voodoo box needs a revisit. Just like almost every other person I've heard using one has the RAMP and MAXFuel pots maxed out just to run wastegate pressure... and we were just barely making good AF's. It needs a bit more capability or the recommendation of using slightly larger injectors. Some NB injectors might be just what the doctor ordered for an NA Voodoo... or some 305's even better. People don't have problems idling 305's with an AFPR, so I don't see any reason it couldn't be done w/Voodoo. I need somebody Voodoo smart to chime in on how it would react to 50cc larger injectors.
Second... tuning with the MS is a piece of cake.
Datalog the runs.
Use Megalogviewer to replay.
Compare it to the dyno's sensors.
Do what Kienan (dyno operator) tells you.
Most of my changes in the fuel table were simply smoothing... and pulling fuel on the top-end. The MAP I have been using is Brains old T3s60 table... so I think he was running a little more fuel for the higher flow of the T3 compared to my T25.
Third... the SR20det T25 is pretty well done at 200whp on a 1.6. Kienan said he has a lot of experience with SR motors. He said with all the bolt-ons, 3"exhaust, full ECU, etc... they run out at 16psi and 240-250whp. He said me being down .4litres and 2psi, and our ****-flowing head... 200whp was pretty good. I'm also running 2.25" Borla's which might soaking up 5-10whp.
So, all in all a good day. I was glad I brought a spare filter. When I was running the MAF, the big filter wouldn't fit... you can see how deformed the small filter is (collapsed from being overflowed for a year). So I threw the new filter on. You can also see my old MBC installed, sitting there waiting (SEND ME IN COACH!!!) in case the EBC couldn't be tamed.
Take a look at my fuel logs from table to table. You'll notice the final log is a lot smoother even though I may have pulled fuel up to the 5th run, and then added back in some cells by the end. First and 5th logs are 8psi... last is 14psi.
Color codes so you can see how much I did in each cell:
Yellow= -1
Red= -2
Blue= +1
Green= +2
Black= I have no idea how a 56 ended up there... became 71.
If there is more than one circle, then just ad... a red and yellow together is -3.
First... the Voodoo box needs a revisit. Just like almost every other person I've heard using one has the RAMP and MAXFuel pots maxed out just to run wastegate pressure... and we were just barely making good AF's. It needs a bit more capability or the recommendation of using slightly larger injectors. Some NB injectors might be just what the doctor ordered for an NA Voodoo... or some 305's even better. People don't have problems idling 305's with an AFPR, so I don't see any reason it couldn't be done w/Voodoo. I need somebody Voodoo smart to chime in on how it would react to 50cc larger injectors.
Second... tuning with the MS is a piece of cake.
Datalog the runs.
Use Megalogviewer to replay.
Compare it to the dyno's sensors.
Do what Kienan (dyno operator) tells you.
Most of my changes in the fuel table were simply smoothing... and pulling fuel on the top-end. The MAP I have been using is Brains old T3s60 table... so I think he was running a little more fuel for the higher flow of the T3 compared to my T25.
Third... the SR20det T25 is pretty well done at 200whp on a 1.6. Kienan said he has a lot of experience with SR motors. He said with all the bolt-ons, 3"exhaust, full ECU, etc... they run out at 16psi and 240-250whp. He said me being down .4litres and 2psi, and our ****-flowing head... 200whp was pretty good. I'm also running 2.25" Borla's which might soaking up 5-10whp.
So, all in all a good day. I was glad I brought a spare filter. When I was running the MAF, the big filter wouldn't fit... you can see how deformed the small filter is (collapsed from being overflowed for a year). So I threw the new filter on. You can also see my old MBC installed, sitting there waiting (SEND ME IN COACH!!!) in case the EBC couldn't be tamed.
Take a look at my fuel logs from table to table. You'll notice the final log is a lot smoother even though I may have pulled fuel up to the 5th run, and then added back in some cells by the end. First and 5th logs are 8psi... last is 14psi.
Color codes so you can see how much I did in each cell:
Yellow= -1
Red= -2
Blue= +1
Green= +2
Black= I have no idea how a 56 ended up there... became 71.
If there is more than one circle, then just ad... a red and yellow together is -3.
Last edited by samnavy; 03-22-2008 at 04:43 PM.
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03-22-2008, 04:26 PM
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Take a look at my timing table. This is the table in the MSQ I got from Scott originally. I've never touched it. I believe it's fairly tame... Shawn looked at it and said I had a lot of room to go. I've never heard even the slightest hint of knock out of the current setup and I'd like to keep it that way. Whaddya think overall of this table. Can I get away with more aggressive timing anywhere and still keep it really safe.
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03-22-2008, 04:34 PM
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Here's the printout of the first run at about 9psi compared to the 8th run at 14psi. Both runs, the boost spikes almost 1psi higher at some point, but then settles out. On the 5th run, I made a tick over 170whp... and on my 7th run it made 203whp... so splitting hairs:
9psi= 170whp/160wtq
14psi= 200whp/185wtq
You can see the difference in fuel between the runs... sliding plenty rich up high on the blue line... and 8pulls later, almost flat from 4500-6500.
On another note, I finally got the EBC nailed down pretty good. I can still play with it a little more between 3800 and 4500, but not this week.
For some reason, I just couldn't get rid of the HICCUPS between 3500-4500. The fuel table is pretty smooth, but the AF jumps, the BOOST jumps, the timing gets squiggly... any suggestions?
9psi= 170whp/160wtq
14psi= 200whp/185wtq
You can see the difference in fuel between the runs... sliding plenty rich up high on the blue line... and 8pulls later, almost flat from 4500-6500.
On another note, I finally got the EBC nailed down pretty good. I can still play with it a little more between 3800 and 4500, but not this week.
For some reason, I just couldn't get rid of the HICCUPS between 3500-4500. The fuel table is pretty smooth, but the AF jumps, the BOOST jumps, the timing gets squiggly... any suggestions?
Last edited by samnavy; 03-22-2008 at 04:46 PM.
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03-22-2008, 08:55 PM
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On another note, I finally got the EBC nailed down pretty good. I can still play with it a little more between 3800 and 4500, but not this week.
For some reason, I just couldn't get rid of the HICCUPS between 3500-4500. The fuel table is pretty smooth, but the AF jumps, the BOOST jumps, the timing gets squiggly... any suggestions?
For some reason, I just couldn't get rid of the HICCUPS between 3500-4500. The fuel table is pretty smooth, but the AF jumps, the BOOST jumps, the timing gets squiggly... any suggestions?
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03-23-2008, 12:38 AM
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I logged every pull. Boost cut set to 16psi, not an issue.
I just looked through all my logs... the 2nd 14psi run was probably the hottest and most heat soaked. I saw 105* at 6500rpm. All other runs are nearly the same, with IAT starting at ambient and ramping up to 90*f at 9psi and 100-105*f at 14psi. It was about 65* in the shop.
I just looked through all my logs... the 2nd 14psi run was probably the hottest and most heat soaked. I saw 105* at 6500rpm. All other runs are nearly the same, with IAT starting at ambient and ramping up to 90*f at 9psi and 100-105*f at 14psi. It was about 65* in the shop.
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03-23-2008, 12:58 AM
#7
that's not bad at all, first thing i'd try is take your 183kpa value and copy them into teh 212kpa row. with my greddy my lowest value in my 212kpa row is 15 and goes to 21 at 7000rpm, this is also a rough tune and i think i could go a little more. also look some of my logs and i've gotten my iat up to 113 after an hour of beating the **** out of the car with this map and no problems. this could also explain why 5psi only gained you 30whp
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03-23-2008, 12:36 PM
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I'm following... I'm gonna search and see if I can find some other Spark MAPs that have been posted to see where I stand across the average. I'm gonna spend a week or so at the current settings and get used to it. Then I'll play with the spark a little and see what the butt-dyno says.
Keep the info coming if you've got it.
Keep the info coming if you've got it.
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03-23-2008, 03:32 PM
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WOW! That table is between 5-6* higher on average than mine... and in some cases, 10* or more (but I'll never be in those cells)... should make a noticeable difference. I may have to find another local Dyno-day and see just how much difference it makes.
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03-24-2008, 08:00 PM
#17
Weirdos.
I need to revisit that, I pulled piles of timing out, and couldn't keep boost under control. Took out some fuel and added timing and it got better, but I have a feeling there's room to go, even WITH California CrappyFuel (tm)
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