Not understsnding AE function in Tuner Studio
12-20-2013, 08:32 PM
#1
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Not understsnding AE function in Tuner Studio
After getting flamed can someone explain or point me to where I can get help on the BASICS of adjusting my AE settings.
ok, I sit there and blip the pedal at the same relative speed. The little dot moves horizontally across .... Duh What's next ?
Sometimes it leaves a dotted outline of the dot. (?)
I know vertically it increases or decreases the amount of enrichment. I know about the multiplier etc
Why does everybody have the little dots in a different place horizontally ?
I need to get AE going. All I have are the base tune settings
Thanks and happy holidays
ok, I sit there and blip the pedal at the same relative speed. The little dot moves horizontally across .... Duh What's next ?
Sometimes it leaves a dotted outline of the dot. (?)
I know vertically it increases or decreases the amount of enrichment. I know about the multiplier etc
Why does everybody have the little dots in a different place horizontally ?
I need to get AE going. All I have are the base tune settings
Thanks and happy holidays
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12-21-2013, 06:13 AM
#3
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AE is just a minor enrichment over and above the VE table, if you notice a lean spike then blip the throttle, look where the 'blob' was and increase that area.
rinse repeat for the entire curve.
It's not rocket science, and it won't ever be 100% perfect in terms of the AFR being perfectly flat unless your VE table is 100% perfect, AND you're using EAE and that is also tuned 100% perfectly.
If there's no hesitation from blipping the throttle, just leave it be, whatever the AFR is it's now close enough to not matter.
Also search noob.
MegaSquirt Acceleration Enrichment Tuning
MS2/Extra Tuning guide
rinse repeat for the entire curve.
It's not rocket science, and it won't ever be 100% perfect in terms of the AFR being perfectly flat unless your VE table is 100% perfect, AND you're using EAE and that is also tuned 100% perfectly.
If there's no hesitation from blipping the throttle, just leave it be, whatever the AFR is it's now close enough to not matter.
Also search noob.
MegaSquirt Acceleration Enrichment Tuning
MS2/Extra Tuning guide
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12-21-2013, 07:10 AM
#4
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Thanks
I read this one and thought I understood the basic process
MegaSquirt Acceleration Enrichment Tuning
It just doesn't seem to make much difference far as lean spikes or rich area of the trace no matter what I do.
I read this one and thought I understood the basic process
MegaSquirt Acceleration Enrichment Tuning
It just doesn't seem to make much difference far as lean spikes or rich area of the trace no matter what I do.
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12-21-2013, 10:22 AM
#6
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Sounds stupid but one of my questions about AE is why are the blue dots horizontally where they are.
My wording is likely wrong but they denote how fast the pedal was moved - right ?.
The object of the tuning is to move them vertically till the flattest trace meaning smallest lean spike and best recovery of the A/F (?)
My wording is likely wrong but they denote how fast the pedal was moved - right ?.
The object of the tuning is to move them vertically till the flattest trace meaning smallest lean spike and best recovery of the A/F (?)
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12-21-2013, 11:55 AM
#7
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accel pump is slightly different. same concept.
that graph it literally the amount of extra fuel you inject/subject based on the rate of your of TPS movement. it's that simple.
dont use the graph to edit values, click the "..." to see the values of the table. blip the throttle, watch the green dot move along the graph and add fuel where needed.
also, sit at idle and watch your TPSDOT log on that screen. lower the tps threshold as low as possible without triggering AE due to noise for ultimate smoothness.
40 %/sec is REALLY high, probably don't need to be higher than 10 %/sec.
this is just a slightly different approach to AE over the standard MSI AE wizard which you should have already be well used to and know how to tune. How long have you had a MS now?
I'm not trying to be a jerk but like you need to learn, everyone does. eventually us hand holders are going to stop holding hands. I'm giving out the same simple advice over and over and over again and it gets beyond annoying because here I was going out every morning spending hours in my car getting it right, then everyone expect the knowledge and skill to just be handed over and then get annoyed when people don't reply to posts within 3 seconds. it gets old fast.
that graph it literally the amount of extra fuel you inject/subject based on the rate of your of TPS movement. it's that simple.
dont use the graph to edit values, click the "..." to see the values of the table. blip the throttle, watch the green dot move along the graph and add fuel where needed.
also, sit at idle and watch your TPSDOT log on that screen. lower the tps threshold as low as possible without triggering AE due to noise for ultimate smoothness.
40 %/sec is REALLY high, probably don't need to be higher than 10 %/sec.
this is just a slightly different approach to AE over the standard MSI AE wizard which you should have already be well used to and know how to tune. How long have you had a MS now?
I'm not trying to be a jerk but like you need to learn, everyone does. eventually us hand holders are going to stop holding hands. I'm giving out the same simple advice over and over and over again and it gets beyond annoying because here I was going out every morning spending hours in my car getting it right, then everyone expect the knowledge and skill to just be handed over and then get annoyed when people don't reply to posts within 3 seconds. it gets old fast.
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12-21-2013, 12:19 PM
#8
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accel pump is slightly different. same concept.
that graph it literally the amount of extra fuel you inject/subject based on the rate of your of TPS movement. it's that simple.
dont use the graph to edit values, click the "..." to see the values of the table. blip the throttle, watch the green dot move along the graph and add fuel where needed.
also, sit at idle and watch your TPSDOT log on that screen. lower the tps threshold as low as possible without triggering AE due to noise for ultimate smoothness.
40 %/sec is REALLY high, probably don't need to be higher than 10 %/sec.
this is just a slightly different approach to AE over the standard MSI AE wizard which you should have already be well used to and know how to tune. How long have you had a MS now?
I'm not trying to be a jerk but like you need to learn, everyone does. eventually us hand holders are going to stop holding hands. I'm giving out the same simple advice over and over and over again and it gets beyond annoying because here I was going out every morning spending hours in my car getting it right, then everyone expect the knowledge and skill to just be handed over and then get annoyed when people don't reply to posts within 3 seconds. it gets old fast.
that graph it literally the amount of extra fuel you inject/subject based on the rate of your of TPS movement. it's that simple.
dont use the graph to edit values, click the "..." to see the values of the table. blip the throttle, watch the green dot move along the graph and add fuel where needed.
also, sit at idle and watch your TPSDOT log on that screen. lower the tps threshold as low as possible without triggering AE due to noise for ultimate smoothness.
40 %/sec is REALLY high, probably don't need to be higher than 10 %/sec.
this is just a slightly different approach to AE over the standard MSI AE wizard which you should have already be well used to and know how to tune. How long have you had a MS now?
I'm not trying to be a jerk but like you need to learn, everyone does. eventually us hand holders are going to stop holding hands. I'm giving out the same simple advice over and over and over again and it gets beyond annoying because here I was going out every morning spending hours in my car getting it right, then everyone expect the knowledge and skill to just be handed over and then get annoyed when people don't reply to posts within 3 seconds. it gets old fast.
My friend
All advice is well taken.
I will PM you later to explain and expand.
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12-21-2013, 06:14 PM
#9
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My ignition switch has been acting up here and there.
Today it got really bad so I took it apart. Thinking it would be a quick job I could do before working on the tune.
The switch had been cleaned years ago when I bought the car.
The little plastic tabs broke this time but I drilled small holed on the plastic and pinned the switch together.
Well, it got worse so I've done no tuning etc. since I was trying to source a relatively inexpensive switch before the holiday - ha!
Happy Holiday !
Today it got really bad so I took it apart. Thinking it would be a quick job I could do before working on the tune.
The switch had been cleaned years ago when I bought the car.
The little plastic tabs broke this time but I drilled small holed on the plastic and pinned the switch together.
Well, it got worse so I've done no tuning etc. since I was trying to source a relatively inexpensive switch before the holiday - ha!
Happy Holiday !
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12-22-2013, 10:43 AM
#10
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stinks.
really once you wrap your head around the AE stuff it's pretty easy.
the curve goes from your negative scale to positve, so the rate of release and when you stomp on it.
AE is only for rapid movements of the throttle, EAE takes care of slow movements, and it's MUCH more difficult to try to teach that, so dont touch that for now.
what i like to do when tuning the accel pump is this:
idle the car.
watch your TPSDOT plot on the AE screen. note the value of highest peak of noise. it should be like 2-8 or so. set your threshold to a number just above this. This will allow your AE to activate as fast as possible without being trigger by noise.
Just be careful because if it starts to trigger at idle due to noise it'll feel like misfires and could lead you to another thread.
once you've tuned the threshold now you should maniplate the curve.
click the "..." and look directly at the values.
it should be something like:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
30 | 17
500 | 20
1000 | 25
what this means is, if you have a threshold of 40%/sec, you won't inject extra fuel below that amount, so the line of 22 and 30 %/sec are pretty much null/void.
if you set the threshold to 10%/sec, then with the above map, youll start to inject about 15% extra at 20%/sec rate of tps.
So what you should do if when your shifting, or blipping the throttle is take note of the tpsdot value that achieved, then tune the enrichment curve to add enough fuel at that rate so the system doesn't go lean and cause hesitation.
I always erred on the side of going slightly rich, another leaner than 14-15AFR and you'll feel it. the richer you make it, the smoother it will feel. Ideally you can tune it so when you hit the throttle the AFRs just react perfectly to your Target and you dont even log/see tip-in.
Again, this is the very same concept of the old AE wizard, they've just changed how it's plotted (as well as the code behind it). Tuning properly should result in smoother than stock transitions/shifts.
If the AE gets worse in the cold, something you might not have to worry about, then it's good to blend the AE with the MAPdot, it really helps get the colder weather in check. something like 25:75 Map:tps.
But, lets say you are going lean and your tpsdot is hitting 100%/sec, then I'd change the map something like this:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
50 | 25
200 | 30
1000 | 40
really once you wrap your head around the AE stuff it's pretty easy.
the curve goes from your negative scale to positve, so the rate of release and when you stomp on it.
AE is only for rapid movements of the throttle, EAE takes care of slow movements, and it's MUCH more difficult to try to teach that, so dont touch that for now.
what i like to do when tuning the accel pump is this:
idle the car.
watch your TPSDOT plot on the AE screen. note the value of highest peak of noise. it should be like 2-8 or so. set your threshold to a number just above this. This will allow your AE to activate as fast as possible without being trigger by noise.
Just be careful because if it starts to trigger at idle due to noise it'll feel like misfires and could lead you to another thread.
once you've tuned the threshold now you should maniplate the curve.
click the "..." and look directly at the values.
it should be something like:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
30 | 17
500 | 20
1000 | 25
what this means is, if you have a threshold of 40%/sec, you won't inject extra fuel below that amount, so the line of 22 and 30 %/sec are pretty much null/void.
if you set the threshold to 10%/sec, then with the above map, youll start to inject about 15% extra at 20%/sec rate of tps.
So what you should do if when your shifting, or blipping the throttle is take note of the tpsdot value that achieved, then tune the enrichment curve to add enough fuel at that rate so the system doesn't go lean and cause hesitation.
I always erred on the side of going slightly rich, another leaner than 14-15AFR and you'll feel it. the richer you make it, the smoother it will feel. Ideally you can tune it so when you hit the throttle the AFRs just react perfectly to your Target and you dont even log/see tip-in.
Again, this is the very same concept of the old AE wizard, they've just changed how it's plotted (as well as the code behind it). Tuning properly should result in smoother than stock transitions/shifts.
If the AE gets worse in the cold, something you might not have to worry about, then it's good to blend the AE with the MAPdot, it really helps get the colder weather in check. something like 25:75 Map:tps.
But, lets say you are going lean and your tpsdot is hitting 100%/sec, then I'd change the map something like this:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
50 | 25
200 | 30
1000 | 40
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12-22-2013, 10:53 AM
#11
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stinks.
really once you wrap your head around the AE stuff it's pretty easy.
the curve goes from your negative scale to positve, so the rate of release and when you stomp on it.
AE is only for rapid movements of the throttle, EAE takes care of slow movements, and it's MUCH more difficult to try to teach that, so dont touch that for now.
what i like to do when tuning the accel pump is this:
idle the car.
watch your TPSDOT plot on the AE screen. note the value of highest peak of noise. it should be like 2-8 or so. set your threshold to a number just above this. This will allow your AE to activate as fast as possible without being trigger by noise.
Just be careful because if it starts to trigger at idle due to noise it'll feel like misfires and could lead you to another thread.
once you've tuned the threshold now you should maniplate the curve.
click the "..." and look directly at the values.
it should be something like:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
30 | 17
500 | 20
1000 | 25
what this means is, if you have a threshold of 40%/sec, you won't inject extra fuel below that amount, so the line of 22 and 30 %/sec are pretty much null/void.
if you set the threshold to 10%/sec, then with the above map, youll start to inject about 15% extra at 20%/sec rate of tps.
So what you should do if when your shifting, or blipping the throttle is take note of the tpsdot value that achieved, then tune the enrichment curve to add enough fuel at that rate so the system doesn't go lean and cause hesitation.
I always erred on the side of going slightly rich, another leaner than 14-15AFR and you'll feel it. the richer you make it, the smoother it will feel. Ideally you can tune it so when you hit the throttle the AFRs just react perfectly to your Target and you dont even log/see tip-in.
Again, this is the very same concept of the old AE wizard, they've just changed how it's plotted (as well as the code behind it). Tuning properly should result in smoother than stock transitions/shifts.
If the AE gets worse in the cold, something you might not have to worry about, then it's good to blend the AE with the MAPdot, it really helps get the colder weather in check. something like 25:75 Map:tps.
But, lets say you are going lean and your tpsdot is hitting 100%/sec, then I'd change the map something like this:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
50 | 25
200 | 30
1000 | 40
really once you wrap your head around the AE stuff it's pretty easy.
the curve goes from your negative scale to positve, so the rate of release and when you stomp on it.
AE is only for rapid movements of the throttle, EAE takes care of slow movements, and it's MUCH more difficult to try to teach that, so dont touch that for now.
what i like to do when tuning the accel pump is this:
idle the car.
watch your TPSDOT plot on the AE screen. note the value of highest peak of noise. it should be like 2-8 or so. set your threshold to a number just above this. This will allow your AE to activate as fast as possible without being trigger by noise.
Just be careful because if it starts to trigger at idle due to noise it'll feel like misfires and could lead you to another thread.
once you've tuned the threshold now you should maniplate the curve.
click the "..." and look directly at the values.
it should be something like:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
30 | 17
500 | 20
1000 | 25
what this means is, if you have a threshold of 40%/sec, you won't inject extra fuel below that amount, so the line of 22 and 30 %/sec are pretty much null/void.
if you set the threshold to 10%/sec, then with the above map, youll start to inject about 15% extra at 20%/sec rate of tps.
So what you should do if when your shifting, or blipping the throttle is take note of the tpsdot value that achieved, then tune the enrichment curve to add enough fuel at that rate so the system doesn't go lean and cause hesitation.
I always erred on the side of going slightly rich, another leaner than 14-15AFR and you'll feel it. the richer you make it, the smoother it will feel. Ideally you can tune it so when you hit the throttle the AFRs just react perfectly to your Target and you dont even log/see tip-in.
Again, this is the very same concept of the old AE wizard, they've just changed how it's plotted (as well as the code behind it). Tuning properly should result in smoother than stock transitions/shifts.
If the AE gets worse in the cold, something you might not have to worry about, then it's good to blend the AE with the MAPdot, it really helps get the colder weather in check. something like 25:75 Map:tps.
But, lets say you are going lean and your tpsdot is hitting 100%/sec, then I'd change the map something like this:
-800 | -20
-250 | -4
-90 | 0
0 | 0
22 | 15
50 | 25
200 | 30
1000 | 40
Wow!! great explanation man !!! Thanks.
I'll play with her soon as she runs again.
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