Let's discuss spark advance
#182
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,493
Total Cats: 4,080
But your motor doesnt have a turbo attached to it:
MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Question about Turbos
MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - Question about Turbos
Originally Posted by Braineack 2/11/13
I already knew that a turbo is an "impeller" that spins a "fan" that blows magical pixie dust with energy "harnessed" from the horns of unicorns into the motor to make power.
#183
Boost Pope
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,026
Total Cats: 6,592
Haha.
I honestly debated with that. At work, all of our SSI stuff is big endian, however it winds up displaying as though it were little endian when viewed on a logic analyzer, so the end result is the same (read from left to right.)
On the other hand, most humans are accustomed to reading binary in big endian left-to-right when presented in print, and the clock on my shelf displays in this format as well.
I honestly debated with that. At work, all of our SSI stuff is big endian, however it winds up displaying as though it were little endian when viewed on a logic analyzer, so the end result is the same (read from left to right.)
On the other hand, most humans are accustomed to reading binary in big endian left-to-right when presented in print, and the clock on my shelf displays in this format as well.
#184
I don't know if this is still relevant to the current direction of the thread, or if it is precise enough for your intentions, but here is a spark map that I put together to emulate the OBD2 computer's indications on my 1997 1.8L California car:
More background on it can be found at the original thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...=tuning+octane
More background on it can be found at the original thread: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...=tuning+octane
#188
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,493
Total Cats: 4,080
it's just 10° After TDC. No biggie.
If we look at 750RPM (typical idle speed) and 10°BTDC (oem timing at idle), it takes 25° or 5.434ms for the flame front to reach 15°ATDC, or about 2mm into the downward stroke.
15°ATDC is an assumption of where the flame front is hitting for this comparison
Since that time never changes we can figure that within the latency of 5.434ms for the spark to ignite the flame and hit the piston since at 500RPM the crank rotates one degree in 0.33333333 milliseconds. At 500RPM 5.434ms is about 16° of crank rotation.
So if we spark at 10°ATDC, then the flame front has moved to ~26°ATDC. This should put the piston top maybe ~4mm into the downward stroke, so less power should be outputted at this time.
This is possibly an effort to stabilize the motor if the RPMs drop that low. If you advanced the timing when the RPMs dropped, it would increase the power and increase ultimately bump up the idle speed. I dont believe the stock ECU uses timing control like my MS3Pro to help control idle speed, so I'm assuming it's a way to allow the idle valve ot have greater effect at low rpms.
If we look at 750RPM (typical idle speed) and 10°BTDC (oem timing at idle), it takes 25° or 5.434ms for the flame front to reach 15°ATDC, or about 2mm into the downward stroke.
15°ATDC is an assumption of where the flame front is hitting for this comparison
Since that time never changes we can figure that within the latency of 5.434ms for the spark to ignite the flame and hit the piston since at 500RPM the crank rotates one degree in 0.33333333 milliseconds. At 500RPM 5.434ms is about 16° of crank rotation.
So if we spark at 10°ATDC, then the flame front has moved to ~26°ATDC. This should put the piston top maybe ~4mm into the downward stroke, so less power should be outputted at this time.
if you figure at 6,000RPM it takes only 0.02777ms to move the crank 1°, you understand why we have to spark much sooner 35° vs. 10°. That's only 1.3885ms to get to 15°ATDC.
I know I did this flame front math wrong, but you get the idea.This is possibly an effort to stabilize the motor if the RPMs drop that low. If you advanced the timing when the RPMs dropped, it would increase the power and increase ultimately bump up the idle speed. I dont believe the stock ECU uses timing control like my MS3Pro to help control idle speed, so I'm assuming it's a way to allow the idle valve ot have greater effect at low rpms.
Last edited by Braineack; 02-27-2013 at 10:35 AM.
#191
Jason is correct. The table was compiled/interpolated based on observations of OBD2 polling, and around idle there was some compensation done to stabilize things between A/C off (low load) and A/C on (heavy load), which is also why it is scaled somewhat non-uniformly so that I could isolate some key areas around idle and cruise.
The stock computer calculates spark based on rpm and MAF load (I believe) and possibly a few other factors. Since the MS is configured differently, this was my best interpretation at emulating it in effectiveness. When I was testing it out, the readings synced up quite well between MS and OBD2.
Note on the negative timing cells -- these cells were basically areas where the car was struggling to not stall. Braking to nearly 0mph with the transmission in gear and crawling along at low speed, high gear, throttle mashed open.
The stock computer calculates spark based on rpm and MAF load (I believe) and possibly a few other factors. Since the MS is configured differently, this was my best interpretation at emulating it in effectiveness. When I was testing it out, the readings synced up quite well between MS and OBD2.
Note on the negative timing cells -- these cells were basically areas where the car was struggling to not stall. Braking to nearly 0mph with the transmission in gear and crawling along at low speed, high gear, throttle mashed open.
Last edited by jnshk; 02-27-2013 at 08:58 PM. Reason: speeliong errars
#192
Joe,
What are you seeing as far as knock with your knock sensor? The following is my table that I have been tuning out knock peaks by lowering timing. Mine is much more conservative now that I have a knock module. I need to check my hardware latency as it is set to 21 microseconds.
What are you seeing as far as knock with your knock sensor? The following is my table that I have been tuning out knock peaks by lowering timing. Mine is much more conservative now that I have a knock module. I need to check my hardware latency as it is set to 21 microseconds.
Last edited by miatauser884; 03-05-2013 at 12:35 PM.