MSPNP 9495 With 460cc's - Miata Turbo Forum - Turbo Kitten is watching you test compression.

wes65 · **MSPNP 9495 With 460cc's starting/idle problems**

I just installed some 460cc injectors and i cant get the car to stay running. I cut the cranking pw's in half and no luck. When i crank it over it will go to after start enrichment and then it will die within about 1 second of starting. I know that is in ase from the realtime monitor. I pulled the plugs and they are black. This car was running perfectly until i put these injectors in. I am on my way to get new plugs as you read this. Thanks in advance!

-Wes

cjernigan · 02-09-2008, 12:34 AM

Did you adjust the req fuel?

Saml01 · 02-09-2008, 12:42 AM

The VE values in the idle area are probably way to rich. I had to lower mine somewhat to get it to idle right.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 01:22 AM

i did adjust the req fuel, it is around 7 if iirc. i am going to put new plugs in and lower the idle ve cells and will report back

**Savington** · 02-09-2008, 01:45 AM

Try 60 for the VE cells in the idle range. My req.fuel for my 94 is 6.6, too.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 02:00 AM

I tried 60 for all the idle ve cells. No luck. My req fuel is 6.7. Im not sure what else to try. I have a wideband and it reads very lean (18:1) when cranking but i dont know how accurate that is during cranking.

**Savington** · 02-09-2008, 02:01 AM

What are your cranking pulse widths?

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 02:02 AM

they are around 2ms for the 56* that it is in my garage, but i have stepped them up and back down all over the place with no luck.

**Savington** · 02-09-2008, 02:16 AM

2ms is extremely low. What range have you played with? My 60F cell is at 4.1.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 02:25 AM

okay, ive got it a 4ms and when i try to start it, it will run for just a few revolutions and then die.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 09:28 AM

could the after start be too rich?

cjernigan · 02-09-2008, 09:37 AM

FWIW, i run the diyautotune ASE and WUE without any adjustments and it's fine.
Your ASE being too rich would just make for a really rich warmup. Maybe you should reflash the base MSQ and re enter the req fuel and cranking PWs.

Saml01 · 02-09-2008, 10:42 AM

60 for the idle cells? I use 44 with my 460's.

My Req Fuel is also 7.5 but thats because I continued using my MSPNP table which was originally designed to be used with 13.1 afr in the req fuel calculation. When I swapped in 460's I kept 13.1 to make it easier to tune.

***Braineack*** · 02-09-2008, 12:02 PM

yeah for 460cc injectors, my req_fuel is 6, idle cells around 48 and ASE timer looks like this:

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 02:16 PM

okay, i set all my idle cells to 44 and my ase is the one from diyautotune. The first time i tried to start it, it acted like it wanted to run then died in about 5 seconds. After that it would only run for a couple revolutions and then die.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 02:36 PM

okay, i reloaded the base map for and reset the req fuel, and cranking pw's. The cranking pw for the 56* it is in my garage is 4.1. I also set all the idle cells to 44. Still no luck. after sitting for a while, the car will run for 5 seconds or so and then die, after that it will just turn over a couple times on its own then dies.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 04:17 PM

haha, this might be stretching it but, maybe someone has a msq for n/a with 460cc's that i could try? I dont know, i mean, everything looks right, 6.7 req fuel, 4.1ms cranking pw, 44% idle cells. Ive got to be missing something, unless it is something really simple.

Saml01 · 02-09-2008, 04:37 PM

what base msq are you using? if u are using the mspnp as base then you want to use 13.1 in the req fuel box. that will yeild 7.5 req fuel. something tells me ur req fuel and consequentially the ve table is messing u up.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 04:42 PM

yeah, i had 14.7 in the afr req fuel box, giving me 6.7. i changed it and i pulled the plugs to let them air out. I noticed that the plugs in cylinders 1 and 2 were black and the ones in 3 and 4 looked new. I put these in last night.

wes65 · 02-09-2008, 05:37 PM

so yeah, i put another set of new plugs in just for the hell of it, i tried cranking again with from what i can see are all the right settings, and then i pulled them out, 1 and 2 smell like gas and are a little discolored, 3 and 4 dont smell at all and look perfect. This is after just a couple minutes of me trying to get it to start.