EBC Not Working
08-30-2011, 12:12 PM
#1
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EBC Not Working
I have read through all the threads on EBC and cant find a resolution to my problem.
Can someone finally put this issue to rest for me?
I have a DIY PNP (MS2) built by Braineack around a year ago and the EBC from DIY autotune website. The EBC is wired correctly to the outlet on the side of the ECU (4 pin connector). I have changed all sorts of settings in tunerstudio to get this thing to work. From enabling the device to chaging the tabloe figures. It appears that the EBC is not working at all. Same result everytime no matter what the settings are set to. I just simply hit Overboost when doing a pull.
Its piped up correctly and wired correctly to the best of my knowledege. I tried opening the box up and looked inside and checked the circuit that the EBC is wired to and thats fine too.
I may have missed something really obvious with the software but I dont think so.
Any suggestions other than burning the car would be most appreciated.
I appologise for another EBC question but I simply cant resolve this one from what I read.
Can someone finally put this issue to rest for me?
I have a DIY PNP (MS2) built by Braineack around a year ago and the EBC from DIY autotune website. The EBC is wired correctly to the outlet on the side of the ECU (4 pin connector). I have changed all sorts of settings in tunerstudio to get this thing to work. From enabling the device to chaging the tabloe figures. It appears that the EBC is not working at all. Same result everytime no matter what the settings are set to. I just simply hit Overboost when doing a pull.
Its piped up correctly and wired correctly to the best of my knowledege. I tried opening the box up and looked inside and checked the circuit that the EBC is wired to and thats fine too.
I may have missed something really obvious with the software but I dont think so.
Any suggestions other than burning the car would be most appreciated.
I appologise for another EBC question but I simply cant resolve this one from what I read.
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08-30-2011, 12:25 PM
#3
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Boost control On
Sol Freq 19.5hz
Control inerval 20ms
Boost control pin PT7
Output polarity Inverted
Closed Duty % 0
open Duty % 100
Algarithm Open Loop
Boost control duty table is set to 0 and all figures at 50% throttle and above are set to 40 as ive been playing around
Ive not touched any PID settings or closed loop tables. Im looking for them now but can only locate one called closed loop idle PID settings.
Sol Freq 19.5hz
Control inerval 20ms
Boost control pin PT7
Output polarity Inverted
Closed Duty % 0
open Duty % 100
Algarithm Open Loop
Boost control duty table is set to 0 and all figures at 50% throttle and above are set to 40 as ive been playing around
Ive not touched any PID settings or closed loop tables. Im looking for them now but can only locate one called closed loop idle PID settings.
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08-30-2011, 12:33 PM
#4
When EBC is disabled or at 0% DC, the boost control valve should be completely open and your boost is modulated by your normal signal pressure and wastegate actuator. You should NOT be hitting overboost.
The way EBC works is to use PWM to close off the the control valve so less of the signal pressure gets to your wastegate actuator. EBC can only increase boost, it cannot decrease boost.
It sounds like you've got your plumbing wrong. The EBC valve has a NC (Normally Closed), NO (Normally Open) and Common ports. You need to plumb your wastegate signal line to NO and Common. If you can't blow through it with the car shut off, it's wrong.
The way EBC works is to use PWM to close off the the control valve so less of the signal pressure gets to your wastegate actuator. EBC can only increase boost, it cannot decrease boost.
It sounds like you've got your plumbing wrong. The EBC valve has a NC (Normally Closed), NO (Normally Open) and Common ports. You need to plumb your wastegate signal line to NO and Common. If you can't blow through it with the car shut off, it's wrong.
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08-30-2011, 12:40 PM
#5
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Boost control On
Sol Freq 19.5hz
Control inerval 20ms
Boost control pin PT7
Output polarity Inverted
Closed Duty % 0
open Duty % 100
Algarithm Open Loop
Boost control duty table is set to 0 and all figures at 50% throttle and above are set to 40 as ive been playing around
Ive not touched any PID settings or closed loop tables. Im looking for them now but can only locate one called closed loop idle PID settings.
Sol Freq 19.5hz
Control inerval 20ms
Boost control pin PT7
Output polarity Inverted
Closed Duty % 0
open Duty % 100
Algarithm Open Loop
Boost control duty table is set to 0 and all figures at 50% throttle and above are set to 40 as ive been playing around
Ive not touched any PID settings or closed loop tables. Im looking for them now but can only locate one called closed loop idle PID settings.
gotta turn closed loop on to activate that table. then the P I D values with open up to tune.
follow this methodoligy: http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/Boost_Con...00000000000000
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08-30-2011, 03:12 PM
#7
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Just followed the guide and left the table the same for now. Changed the proportional gain down from 180 to 100 as it says. Im going to leave it set on closed loop and do a run. If in the meantime I need to change back to open loop let me know. I will check when I get back from the run to see if there is a reply.
Overboost is enabled.
Overboost is enabled.
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08-30-2011, 03:17 PM
#8
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with P at 100, and I and D at 0, just keep lowering P until when you spool, you just start overshooting the target in your KPA table.
then once you get that P value, start increasing I. Do this until you can make a pull to redline and hold the boost target. At 0 it will spike and fall off.
When you add I youll have to add more P in to compensate.
finally, if you notice the target is oscillating, start adding in D. You'll probably have to adjust P again.
When all is said and done, you'll have spool that just spikes up over your target and holds flat to redline.
then once you get that P value, start increasing I. Do this until you can make a pull to redline and hold the boost target. At 0 it will spike and fall off.
When you add I youll have to add more P in to compensate.
finally, if you notice the target is oscillating, start adding in D. You'll probably have to adjust P again.
When all is said and done, you'll have spool that just spikes up over your target and holds flat to redline.
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08-30-2011, 03:34 PM
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Just took it for a spin set for closed loop and it pulled like hell in 2nd gear went upto 20psi and then nearly threw me through the windscreen with the overboost protection. Should it still do that even with all the settings as they are?
I thought the idea was that with the settings set to what I had them it should be nice and tame and then I can start adjusting it higher. I still dont think the EBC is working.
One final thing. On the plug that the EBC is wired to which goes to the ECU. Im only using the 1 wire which was labelled for EBC and no other wires are connected to this connector. IS that ok?
the other wire goes to the blue connetor under the bonnet from the EBC.
I thought the idea was that with the settings set to what I had them it should be nice and tame and then I can start adjusting it higher. I still dont think the EBC is working.
One final thing. On the plug that the EBC is wired to which goes to the ECU. Im only using the 1 wire which was labelled for EBC and no other wires are connected to this connector. IS that ok?
the other wire goes to the blue connetor under the bonnet from the EBC.
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08-30-2011, 03:45 PM
#13
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it's all a matter of tuning.
when you tune P you're just tuning the initial spoolup target, so multiple WOT hammers is nessecary.
This is where adding a "live" boost plot graph to your dashboard comes in handy.
once you are happy with P's targeting, you'll increase I to maintain the target to redline, so redline pulls will be next up.
Highways are great for this.
when you tune P you're just tuning the initial spoolup target, so multiple WOT hammers is nessecary.
This is where adding a "live" boost plot graph to your dashboard comes in handy.
once you are happy with P's targeting, you'll increase I to maintain the target to redline, so redline pulls will be next up.
Highways are great for this.
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08-30-2011, 04:03 PM
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Ok so this time when I lowered the Over boost it took my max boost down to around 8psi which was too low so I put it back to 250kpa which seems to be where I need the protection around 22psi. Took it for a spin and gave it WOT and hit OB straight away at around 22psi lots of Pinging (Note US use of the word lol) which wasnt fun.
Dropped the OB to 220kpi for added protection
Does output polirity need changing from inverted and algarithm from closed loop to open?
Dropped the OB to 220kpi for added protection
Does output polirity need changing from inverted and algarithm from closed loop to open?
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08-30-2011, 04:09 PM
#16
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lowering the overboost should have no effect on your boost level other than preventing combustion beyond that level...
polarity ssould stay invereted, settings look good -- its just a matter of tuning.
polarity ssould stay invereted, settings look good -- its just a matter of tuning.
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08-30-2011, 04:11 PM
#17
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By lowering the overboost I cant achieve the boost level I want though. So do I increase P again higher?
If I saw a change I would understand but at the moment there is no change when I change any settings other than when I alter the OB.
Is it worth me adopting bothe tables from the link you sent and change all my tables to the same as the link?
Would that make any difference?
Ok just learned that 200 is max
If I saw a change I would understand but at the moment there is no change when I change any settings other than when I alter the OB.
Is it worth me adopting bothe tables from the link you sent and change all my tables to the same as the link?
Would that make any difference?
Ok just learned that 200 is max
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08-30-2011, 04:16 PM
#18
Man, you really need to take a step back and start with the basics.
Have you verified your plumbing and wiring yet? One side of your valve is tied to +12VDC (the "blue connector under the bonnet"). The other side of your valve is intermittently grounded by the ECU pin (the "single wire"). When the ECU pin is open (not grounded), you must be able to blow through your valve with your mouth. When the ECU pin is grounded, the valve should be closed.
Let's start there. When this is demonstrated to work, then make a run with EBC turned OFF so you can verify your base wastegate settings (remember that EBC can only increase boost above the wastegate setting, it cannot lower boost). After that, we can move on to some open-loop settings to verify that the basics in the MS are OK (frequency, polarity, etc.). Then . . . we can tune closed loop.
Off course, if you would rather skip all this and jump right into closed loop tuning when nothing appears to be working and blow up your engine, well, that's your business.
Have you verified your plumbing and wiring yet? One side of your valve is tied to +12VDC (the "blue connector under the bonnet"). The other side of your valve is intermittently grounded by the ECU pin (the "single wire"). When the ECU pin is open (not grounded), you must be able to blow through your valve with your mouth. When the ECU pin is grounded, the valve should be closed.
Let's start there. When this is demonstrated to work, then make a run with EBC turned OFF so you can verify your base wastegate settings (remember that EBC can only increase boost above the wastegate setting, it cannot lower boost). After that, we can move on to some open-loop settings to verify that the basics in the MS are OK (frequency, polarity, etc.). Then . . . we can tune closed loop.
Off course, if you would rather skip all this and jump right into closed loop tuning when nothing appears to be working and blow up your engine, well, that's your business.
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08-30-2011, 04:29 PM
#19
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Man, you really need to take a step back and start with the basics.
Have you verified your plumbing and wiring yet? One side of your valve is tied to +12VDC (the "blue connector under the bonnet"). The other side of your valve is intermittently grounded by the ECU pin (the "single wire"). When the ECU pin is open (not grounded), you must be able to blow through your valve with your mouth. When the ECU pin is grounded, the valve should be closed.
Let's start there. When this is demonstrated to work, then make a run with EBC turned OFF so you can verify your base wastegate settings (remember that EBC can only increase boost above the wastegate setting, it cannot lower boost). After that, we can move on to some open-loop settings to verify that the basics in the MS are OK (frequency, polarity, etc.). Then . . . we can tune closed loop.
Off course, if you would rather skip all this and jump right into closed loop tuning when nothing appears to be working and blow up your engine, well, that's your business.
Have you verified your plumbing and wiring yet? One side of your valve is tied to +12VDC (the "blue connector under the bonnet"). The other side of your valve is intermittently grounded by the ECU pin (the "single wire"). When the ECU pin is open (not grounded), you must be able to blow through your valve with your mouth. When the ECU pin is grounded, the valve should be closed.
Let's start there. When this is demonstrated to work, then make a run with EBC turned OFF so you can verify your base wastegate settings (remember that EBC can only increase boost above the wastegate setting, it cannot lower boost). After that, we can move on to some open-loop settings to verify that the basics in the MS are OK (frequency, polarity, etc.). Then . . . we can tune closed loop.
Off course, if you would rather skip all this and jump right into closed loop tuning when nothing appears to be working and blow up your engine, well, that's your business.
Its 10 PM at night here now and its to dark to do anymore. I will check the valve as you said tomorrow after work and then post back and take it from there. Thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate your help and patience.
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