Braineack

iTrader: (62)

I don't think anyone else has actually TRIED to do this on stock injectors is the thing...

Throw some injectors on that kit and that's a pretty potent setup for only 9psi with a chinaturdo.

Regards to 100%DC:
If they were at 100%DC we'd be seeing them running out of fuel at redline. A/F plots I've seen suggest there's still enough fuel up top and it's not leaning out due to too much power and too little fuel delivery.

Lets say you run the setup at 10psi and you start to notice that no matter what you try to do to increase the pulsewidth you go lean at 6700RPM, you know you've hit 100%DC and can no longer supply enough fuel to support the power output.

With that said: Those injectors aren't quite tapped out it seems, but I'd imagine they are pretty close...

Let's find more semantics we can hate on.

FM still sells the Voodoo kit, which runs at 8psi using stock injectors--those ********.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Reposting for emphasis


Reposting for emphasis


Reposting for emphasis


So the discussions we have had for years regarding stock or other EV1 injector opening and closing times being maxed out at 85% duty cycle are suddenly irrelevant? A manufacturer or even a local tuner delivering a car with zero headroom to compensate for weather or other vehicle variables would be laughed out of town if they were any other company. Can you imagine the lambasting we would give TDR, Nitrodann (sorry Dann), FFS, or anyone else that would come up with something like this? I am a bit bewildered by how this can be considered acceptable.


As someone who once experienced maxed out RX7 460cc injectors at ~240whp, I still don't understand where the extra 200cc's are coming from out of this set of stock ~265cc injectors.


Please excuse my incredulity, but I just don't understand. Maybe the problem is me.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

You can easily hear a miata pinging on the dyno or while driving.

bolded for emphasis.

Reverant

iTrader: (10)

Depends on the exhaust.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

that's what she said?

nitrodann

I agree with brains pinging text above. Infact I think anyone who doesnt either has a screamer pipe on a 45mm gate or is full of ****.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Its not that its hard to hear det, its hard to distinguish mild det from all the other nosies the engine is making without some sort of det cans. Its worse on a car with a stock exhaust though. At least with an aftermarket exhaust I know for sure that marbles in a coffee can noise isnt heat shield rattle.

Corky Bell

Our altitude is 1100 feet.

When the torque curve starts a downhill run to the redline, less air per putt is actually entering the combustion chamber. If the torque falls 10%, the fuel should do so as well, else the system grows 10% richer. Calculate on the implications of that for a while and see what you get.

That's what the air corrector jet is for.

I've not seen an injector stick open due to high %age duty cycle. I have seen many injectors over 700cc/min jam closed due to fuel pressure.

I can't come up with a reason electrically or mechanically that an injector would be damaged by excessive use at or near 100%. Does anyone know whys or wherefores?

The fact that this car did what it appears to have done does not mean we ship systems suggesting use at the same boost. We will trim it down a notch, but clearly remain in excess of 200 bhp on the stock injectors.

corky

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Did you get a heatshield that fit? Specifically the one that was coming to you weeks ago?

Inquiring minds need to know.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

How was this thing tuned from the beginning? By having someone watch the exhaust for detonation? Do we even know how much timing it's running?

18psi

iTrader: (76)

fixed for accuracy
and suddenly, just like that, you forget about samnavy and numerous other people that actually have
you keep referencing FM. it's cute. it's like corky and stephanie back in the day (and even now sometimes) putting others down to look better

1) their "boost creep" issue you linked to was dopples thread where he mated the newer hotside to the older 2560, resulting in creep
2) they don't claim 230whp, and specifically tell people that it is a 180hp system they're selling.

try again. you might want to call corky and stephanie and get pointers on this stuff.

I suggest we delete everything we've said over the past 10 years on this forum, cause obviously laws of this universe, and mathematics, do not apply
because ALPHAOMEGA?

if the injectors aren't at 100, what are they at?
how was it discovered that the pump is "almost tapped out"?
in for 250whp on stock injectors being the "norm" now.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Guys to halt the hate parade a little. The is a chance, small as it is, that this is for real and I can explain it.

So like I calculated earlier, they must be hitting at or a little below 0.41 BSFC at redline for this to be working, which means peak torque BSFC is for sure below that number. Now thats not as crazy as you would think. The FM dodoo kit that FM sells as a 180whp (call it 200hp crank) kit, if FM is being safe and limits the injectors to 80% duty cycle like I believe keith has said they did that car is also making ~0.40 BSFC at peak power and must be below that number at peak torque. Sit back and have a thought on this. Without a doubt the BEGI kit is going to have better BSFC performance from the more tubular nature of the manifold, external wastegate, and better intercooler. Even if its hitting the same peak power BSFC numbers as the FM kit that puts the car at about 96% injector duty cycle at peak power if I did my math right. Now what I cant explain is how both FM and BEGI seem to be hitting these really low peak power BSFC numbers, but people who arent shops and tuning with an MS seem to fail to even come close.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

Here is the FM claim sheet:

richyvrlimited

iTrader: (1)

Datapoint from me.

Couldn't hit 200flywheel HP with 320cc injectors on a MS1, managed about 195fw/hp at 95%DC.

And for the record, I can't hear light det without detcans. Det I can actually hear is that severe it causes missfires. Anyone who claims they can hear det without detcans must have ears like a bat.

Not sure if Brain is being serious, or just trolling.

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Your peak power BSFC is ~0.59 then. Thats on like the bad side of 1980s turbocharging. There was probably a good 10hp that would be pretty easy to find in the tune or other easy setup.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Hang on Leafy, i'm going to blow your mind.

330cc injectors. Everyone's favorite piece of **** 80s turbo truck motor. Previously ran on a Dynojet, internet math puts this thing at about 285-290whp on a Disneyjet.

What was that about 80s turbocharging?

Leafy

iTrader: (1)

Waiting on obscene BSFC from F2T content.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

You know me too well.

No idea what BSFC or duty cycle was. No way to measure it, stock ECU chipped for boost cut removal only.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

For perspective, we all grow and learn, and technologies change. But, I have this trivia question:

Who said this to me on m.net on Aug 8, 2013 (and I am greatful that he did):

"btw, on a 99 with the returnless fuel rail, you'll have a hard time (even with the stock exhaust) providing enough fuel at even 6psi with stock injectors."