Drain flange
03-03-2008, 06:03 PM
#1
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Drain flange
This flange will work on the Greddy turbo yes? I think T04 is the same as TD04 right?
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=BCS
If so, since it's 1/2" NPT, I should do 1/2" hose for the drain line right?
THanks
-Ryan
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=BCS
If so, since it's 1/2" NPT, I should do 1/2" hose for the drain line right?
THanks
-Ryan
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03-04-2008, 03:43 AM
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Because I bought one 
Really, I wanted the cheapest entry level way to put a turbo on the car with the absolute least amount of components so that I can start with the most simple base line, see how that is, and add parts and learn about them and experience how they change/effect the performance as I go. I've never had anything turbocharged and want to learn everything about it as I go. Plus, I wanted the ability to hand pick every part I add instead of going with a kit..
I may not even do an intercooler for my 8 psi goal. I'm brewing a plan for a part aluminum part carbon fiber crossover tube with the aboslute least bends and length possible with water/methanol injection... could have great spool/response... so spending the $$ on a kit that came with a nice intercooler setup and IC piping didn't make sense when I haven't made my mind up on that yet.
-Ryan
Really, I wanted the cheapest entry level way to put a turbo on the car with the absolute least amount of components so that I can start with the most simple base line, see how that is, and add parts and learn about them and experience how they change/effect the performance as I go. I've never had anything turbocharged and want to learn everything about it as I go. Plus, I wanted the ability to hand pick every part I add instead of going with a kit..
I may not even do an intercooler for my 8 psi goal. I'm brewing a plan for a part aluminum part carbon fiber crossover tube with the aboslute least bends and length possible with water/methanol injection... could have great spool/response... so spending the $$ on a kit that came with a nice intercooler setup and IC piping didn't make sense when I haven't made my mind up on that yet.
-Ryan
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03-04-2008, 03:46 AM
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On topic: Thanks Joe Perez, I actually dug up a post of yours form a while back with the search where you linked a guy to a turbo flange from jgsturbo.com: http://jgsturbo.com/index2.html #TK139 and linked him to all the parts/part #'s in anplumbing.com for making a full SS drain line setup - your post was so all-inclusive I just purchased all the parts you linked to to hell with doing a silicone hose if for $20 more I can put together a worry-free SS line.
-Ryan
to hell with doing a silicone hose if for $20 more I can put together a worry-free SS line.-Ryan
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03-04-2008, 03:52 AM
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Ryan, you still planning on using an MS with your setup? I am hoping to install a meth/water setup over my spring break at the end of March (DO basic controlled by MSPNP), so I'll let you know how that goes.
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03-04-2008, 05:45 AM
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You mentioned your PNP has WI control - something the one I was asking you about in a PM can't do. what do you mean by that? It can control the flow of the injector according to boost?
I've got a few things on the shopping list before I do the WI and up the boost - bypass valve, wideband, MS, injectors...
God.. what a money pit I've turned my car into lol. And this after all my talk with you about how I thought I wouldn't turbo my car since my bike was faster than a turbo miata anyways....
-Ryan
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03-04-2008, 10:54 AM
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Did I link to the JGS flange? Weird... I know I bought my flange from Function7. Maybe I was quoting an equivalent part. But I'm glad you found the writeup helpful. That info really needs to be integrated into the FAQ...
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03-04-2008, 04:41 PM
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Jerry's PNP triggers the WI system over certain RPM, boost, and manifold temp points. There are a couple of controllers in the works that would theoretically allow one of the unused fuel maps in the MS (there are 3, 2 are normally unused) to control a progressive water injection valve.
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03-04-2008, 05:06 PM
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Progressive would make sense so you aren't spraying the same amount at 2 psi on the hwy as you need to spray at 10 psi WOT... if all the existing setups are just off/on spray, seems a bit of a waste. Not to say water is real expensive, but it would make a given amount last longer before and lengthen time between refills...
-Ryan
-Ryan
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03-04-2008, 06:29 PM
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They're not. Devil'sOwn offers a progressive controller which modules the power supply to the pump based on MAP. It's not quite as perfect as a true proportional controller would be (water injected relative to both RPM and MAP) but it's a large step up.
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03-05-2008, 02:21 PM
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The progressive controller that D.O. sells has two front-panel user adjustments. One is the onset threshold, the other is the full-power threshold.
The onset threshold is adjustable between 2-12 PSI. This sets the point at which the system turns on and first begins spraying. The full threshold is adjustable from 5-15 PSI, which determines the point at which the controller reaches 100% duty cycle, supplying full power to the pump. Between these two setpoints, a linear interpolation is done.
Granted, modulating the DC supply to the pump is probably not as good a method as switching a high-speed valve while running the pump at full capacity, but it's gotta be better than a simple on-off control.
You really should check it out. Until someone comes up with a nice, inexpensive HSV that works with the MS's WI output, it's probably the best solution out there in terms of price / performance: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/wat...roller-14.html
The onset threshold is adjustable between 2-12 PSI. This sets the point at which the system turns on and first begins spraying. The full threshold is adjustable from 5-15 PSI, which determines the point at which the controller reaches 100% duty cycle, supplying full power to the pump. Between these two setpoints, a linear interpolation is done.
Granted, modulating the DC supply to the pump is probably not as good a method as switching a high-speed valve while running the pump at full capacity, but it's gotta be better than a simple on-off control.
You really should check it out. Until someone comes up with a nice, inexpensive HSV that works with the MS's WI output, it's probably the best solution out there in terms of price / performance: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/wat...roller-14.html
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03-05-2008, 02:52 PM
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13psi at 3800rpm, 13psi at 7000rpm. Once someone comes out with a controller and an HSV, I am going to add that to my Basic kit.
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03-05-2008, 03:04 PM
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Wellll I meant it's relative to rpms until the wastegate opens and tells the boost to stop rising, otherwise it'd continue to be relative to rpms. You know what I meant lol.
I suppose the DO progressive setup sounds pretty effective. Not much need to tie it into the MS unless you just want the benefit of controlling it through the laptop instead of having a separate controller for it..
So looking on DO's website, the basic kit is an on/off sprayer triggered by a user-set boost level. The progressive controller is a 145.00 upgrade.
Has anybody injected right before the inlet to the turbo? I don't know if you would need a second WI kit or if you can run two injectors off of one controller and out of one tank, but I've heard that can increase the efficiency map of the turbo by 10-12%.
-Ryan
I suppose the DO progressive setup sounds pretty effective. Not much need to tie it into the MS unless you just want the benefit of controlling it through the laptop instead of having a separate controller for it..
So looking on DO's website, the basic kit is an on/off sprayer triggered by a user-set boost level. The progressive controller is a 145.00 upgrade.
Has anybody injected right before the inlet to the turbo? I don't know if you would need a second WI kit or if you can run two injectors off of one controller and out of one tank, but I've heard that can increase the efficiency map of the turbo by 10-12%.
-Ryan
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03-05-2008, 05:07 PM
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It's $145 if you buy it standalone. As a kit upgrade (stage 2 vs. stage 1) it's a $110 option.
There are some theoretical advantages to using a Megasquirt-controlled HSV over the progressive controller. For one, you can maintain a more perfect water mixture by injecting water relative to fuel (which is, in simple terms, MAP x RPM) as opposed to MAP alone. Even if your turbo puts out a flat 13PSI from 4000 to redline, the amount of fuel, and therefore water, consumed per unit time increases with RPM. Same reason that injector duty cycle increases as RPM increases, even if the injector duration remains constant. The other advantage would be that, quite simply, modulating the power to the pump is probably not as accurate a means of controlling water flow than directly gating the water with a solenoid.
All that being said, the DO controller is dead-simple to install and configure and really can't be beat for the price. I'm still running mine, even now that I've got Megasquirt.
As to injection pre-turbo... This comes up every now and then. The general consensus seems to be that spraying water droplets onto a compressor wheel turning in excess of 100,000 RPM would probably not be good for the leading edges of the blades on the compressor wheel. At high enough relative velocities, water is a surprisingly good abrasive.
I really have to question the whole concept of whether or not it matters (barring de-atomization and pooling) where in the intake tract the water is injected relative to its cooling potential. Everyone seems to believe that the all of the cooling work is done by the water as it travels through the intake air prior to being sucked into the cylinders. This has never made sense to me. The ΔT just doesn't seem high enough for any meaningful heat transfer to take place. It's always seemed to me that the time when the water is most likely to do some significant cooling is inside the cylinder during the compression cycle. As the piston rises on the compression stroke, the temperature of the fuel/air mixture in the cylinder rises greatly, and I would think that it is during this period that any water droplets in the mixture would be motivated to flash to vapor, taking a considerable amount of heat energy with them.
I just don't have any actual hard science to back it up.
There are some theoretical advantages to using a Megasquirt-controlled HSV over the progressive controller. For one, you can maintain a more perfect water mixture by injecting water relative to fuel (which is, in simple terms, MAP x RPM) as opposed to MAP alone. Even if your turbo puts out a flat 13PSI from 4000 to redline, the amount of fuel, and therefore water, consumed per unit time increases with RPM. Same reason that injector duty cycle increases as RPM increases, even if the injector duration remains constant. The other advantage would be that, quite simply, modulating the power to the pump is probably not as accurate a means of controlling water flow than directly gating the water with a solenoid.
All that being said, the DO controller is dead-simple to install and configure and really can't be beat for the price. I'm still running mine, even now that I've got Megasquirt.
As to injection pre-turbo... This comes up every now and then. The general consensus seems to be that spraying water droplets onto a compressor wheel turning in excess of 100,000 RPM would probably not be good for the leading edges of the blades on the compressor wheel. At high enough relative velocities, water is a surprisingly good abrasive.
I really have to question the whole concept of whether or not it matters (barring de-atomization and pooling) where in the intake tract the water is injected relative to its cooling potential. Everyone seems to believe that the all of the cooling work is done by the water as it travels through the intake air prior to being sucked into the cylinders. This has never made sense to me. The ΔT just doesn't seem high enough for any meaningful heat transfer to take place. It's always seemed to me that the time when the water is most likely to do some significant cooling is inside the cylinder during the compression cycle. As the piston rises on the compression stroke, the temperature of the fuel/air mixture in the cylinder rises greatly, and I would think that it is during this period that any water droplets in the mixture would be motivated to flash to vapor, taking a considerable amount of heat energy with them.
I just don't have any actual hard science to back it up.
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