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Race Prep Miata race-only chat. 949 Racing - Rim & tires

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Old 01-02-2015, 09:30 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
From memory, 5sp + 4.77s gives the same 3-4-5 ratios as 6sp + 3.9. No reason to spend points on a 6sp if you have a decent (flat) tune.
Except we used 4-5-6 so 5 and 6 were right next to each other. The points build yields a good powerband but not dead flat like a dyno classed.

PTC/E1 dyno classed for 170whp. 2.0L, 11.0:1, ported head, square top and I think, pump gas (not sure).



PTE/TTE dyno classed for 130whp. I cleaned this one up later but can't find the plot. It was pretty smooth and made 130whp from 4500-8500rpm with a 5psd and 4.875 OS Giken. Ran most courses in one gear except for the odd hairpin.

Edit. This was an 85.5mm, 11.0:1 (2.0L) with the final hand ported prototype of what was digitized for our CNC head.



PTE/TTE points classed for 144whp. This is the car we didn't take to Miller and I regret it.


Last edited by emilio700; 01-03-2015 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:03 PM   #262
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Except we used 4-5-6 so 5 and 6 were right next to each other. The points build yields a good powerband but not dead flat like a dyno classed.

PTC/E1 dyno classed for 170whp. 2.0L, 11.0:1, ported head, square top and I think, pump gas (not sure).

....

PTE/TTE dyno classed for 130whp. I cleaned this one up later but can't find the plot. It was pretty smooth and made 130whp from 4500-8500rpm with a 5psd and 4.875 OS Giken. Ran most courses in one gear except for the odd hairpin.

...

PTE/TTE points classed for 144whp. This is the car we didn't take to Miller and I regret it.

...


$1,000,000 R&D post.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:13 PM   #263
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Wow, do you guys really have to share everything . . . with everyone?

We're going to run my points classed 99 in WERC E3 this year. I might run some TTE in it as well while I'm out there. I still can't afford tires so it would have been nice to have some of the other secrets still in the bag. Oh well, I'm still to slow to win anyway.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:47 PM   #264
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Wow, do you guys really have to share everything . . . with everyone?
If it's useful to somebody and my team isn't racing in the class, I don't care who has the info and I'll publish. Just like all the other setup and driving info I have shared with you over the last 5 years..

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$1,000,000 R&D post.
More like $200k but yeah
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:20 PM   #265
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Benefit to the 6-speed isn't the ratios, it's the higher average power delivery from the tighter ratios in the gearbox. On a proper tweaked-out dyno class car it's not worth anything, but on a points NB1 it might be. I'd still mate it to 4.77s either way.
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Except we used 4-5-6 so 5 and 6 were right next to each other.
I just ran the numbers for 6sp + 4.77 for the first time and I see what you guys are talking about. I bet 4-5-6 with that combo feels great.

Thanks for sharing this stuff.
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Old 01-16-2015, 05:59 PM   #266
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Unfortunately I think it's always tires first. It does appear that the SM7 and R7 are not the same tire as the SM6 and R6 were.
Meaning the SM7 and R7 are different from each other? I'll be super sad if I can't run SM7 take-offs "competitively" this year while I get seat time and sort my TTE points car out. Guess I could win some races to win sticker R7s

It's nice to see that you got the job done in E without aero. I don't have any extra points for it and I've been concerned about the front of my car at track like Road Atlanta. Every damn TT miata I've seen in the south-east has the big front air-dam. Granted, the rules have changed since you ran in E.
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Old 01-17-2015, 02:54 AM   #267
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Every damn TT miata I've seen in the south-east has the big front air-dam.
They're all doing it wrong
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:32 AM   #268
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...back to the points calculator.
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:01 AM   #269
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Meaning the SM7 and R7 are different from each other? I'll be super sad if I can't run SM7 take-offs "competitively" this year while I get seat time and sort my TTE points car out. Guess I could win some races to win sticker R7s

It's nice to see that you got the job done in E without aero. I don't have any extra points for it and I've been concerned about the front of my car at track like Road Atlanta. Every damn TT miata I've seen in the south-east has the big front air-dam. Granted, the rules have changed since you ran in E.
I doubt you will have any problems. Lower ride height + 0 pt under tray serve to eliminate/reduce front end lift.
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:17 AM   #270
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How to win in PTE:

1. Make your car as heavy as you possibly can without ballast, then add 200lbs of steel plate
2. Buy the best single-adjustable (or DA without remote canister) shocks and springs you can afford, and set them up to work with stock sways and endlinks
3. Run 205/50 Hoosier R7s on 9" wheels
4. Spend the rest of your points on power, until you reach your power cap, then add torque
4a. Dyno class cars, request PTE* base classing and use the +7 to add power and hope that nobody in your region was smart enough to start with an NB1 in the first place
5. Read the zero-point mods section, and do them all. Then read it again and do some more of them

You are doing it wrong if:
-you take points for aero
-your car weighs less than 2400lbs (2500lbs? 2600lbs?)
-you can points-class your car and you are dyno-classed
-you are using a 1.6 (go build a competitive PTF car)
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Old 01-18-2015, 12:41 PM   #271
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Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely be adding ballast most likely. My 99 is around 2120lbs with a plash of gas in its current STR trim. Add some weight from safety equipment, myself (200), more fuel, and I I'll just barely make the 2400lb minimum.

Has anyone confirmed a speed or longevity difference between the sm7 and r7?
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Old 01-18-2015, 01:30 PM   #272
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How to win in PTE:
Yep. A miata can still win TTE with an aero setup or (maybe) without hoosiers, but big power gets priority for PTE.
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Old 02-13-2015, 04:12 PM   #273
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I am picking up an NB1 tomorrow.

Plan A is to keep it around as a Leave-It-Stock car that the wife is comfortable driving during nice weather, while I make the NA a more serious thing(0pt mods and such)

Plan B is to part out my NA and make a newer/nicer, double duty, street/TT car with all the new stuff ive learned the last 7 years with the NA.

Assuming plan B, what major changes, if any, would you make to "the formula" for a TT specific build?

It will be heavy because stereo, cruise control and AC will remain.
It will be easy to points class because it is 99% stock right now and it has no appearance package stuff on it.
I already have a rollbar, Xidas, 9" 6uls, a pile of sm6s and an available 6 speed...
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Old 02-13-2015, 06:03 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by doward View Post
I am picking up an NB1 tomorrow.

Plan A is to keep it around as a Leave-It-Stock car that the wife is comfortable driving during nice weather, while I make the NA a more serious thing(0pt mods and such)

Plan B is to part out my NA and make a newer/nicer, double duty, street/TT car with all the new stuff ive learned the last 7 years with the NA.

Assuming plan B, what major changes, if any, would you make to "the formula" for a TT specific build?

It will be heavy because stereo, cruise control and AC will remain.
It will be easy to points class because it is 99% stock right now and it has no appearance package stuff on it.
I already have a rollbar, Xidas, 9" 6uls, a pile of sm6s and an available 6 speed...
I'm currently doing your plan B with my car, though I will probably have to add weight to my 99 sport and remove the aero appearance package I'm not going to do an engine rebuild or anything. I'll run with my current engine now.....unless I'm only losing by a few tenths.

I don't think it would be worth the points to run a 6-speed, but I don't have any first hand experience.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:40 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by doward View Post

Plan B is to part out my NA and make a newer/nicer, double duty, street/TT car with all the new stuff ive learned the last 7 years with the NA.

Assuming plan B, what major changes, if any, would you make to "the formula" for a TT specific build?

It will be heavy because stereo, cruise control and AC will remain.
It will be easy to points class because it is 99% stock right now and it has no appearance package stuff on it.
I already have a rollbar, Xidas, 9" 6uls, a pile of sm6s and an available 6 speed...
I am also doing your Plan B with my '92 except I have the 1.6l curse. There is no way I can build even a locally competitive car on points and keep things like a/c and a full interior.

So my plan is to go forced induction and get a dyno reclass. I am planning on about 135rwhp and 2850lbs for TTE and 150rwhp and the same weight for TTD.

I bought the car new and like it, so I simply accept that I won't be competitive enough to go to nationals.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:09 PM   #276
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I have found it's impossible to be competitive in TTE in our region with any extra weight, A/C, PS, interior, windows, door cards, etc.
There's enough other TT Miatas and Hondas that are completely prep'ed along with the PTEs and SMs running in TTE, that running anything except a car at the limits of the rules (weight, power & handling) has no chance to win any tires or brake pads.
We had 12 TTE entries in our Jan event. I just pulled the windows, door cards, radio, glove box, etc, 45lbs worth. Now if I can just get 45 lbs out of the drivers seat.
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:51 PM   #277
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You had to drop 45lbs to get close to the 2400lb min? My car is 2120lbs as is in STR trim, add a roll-bar(50#) and myself(200#) then I'm almost to the min. I may have to run some ballast or run a full tank of gas to make the weight, lol.

A big field like that would be fun! The first event with SE at CMP had 7 cars in TTE, with quite a time spread. I'm anxious to get going with NASA this season.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:44 AM   #278
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Daaang. I searched everywhere for this tire last winter but couldn't find any way to buy it. Looks like it's finally available. Could be the perfect miata tire for TTE or maybe even PTE thanks to the 195 sizing. Now I'm kinda wishing I'd stayed in E for one more year before buying flares and 245 Maxxis...

Ratings, reviews and specifications for Hankook Ventus TD Z221 Soft tires

1 star reclass +7
195 TD -3
shocks/springs +5
OS Giken +3
air dam +3
wing/nascar spoiler +4
=19

Or swap the air dam and wing out for a 2 star reclass if you can talk Greg into it. He wouldn't give a miata a 2 star reclass last I heard.
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Old 02-15-2015, 11:40 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
Daaang. I searched everywhere for this tire last winter but couldn't find any way to buy it. Looks like it's finally available. Could be the perfect miata tire for TTE or maybe even PTE thanks to the 195 sizing. Now I'm kinda wishing I'd stayed in E for one more year before buying flares and 245 Maxxis...

Ratings, reviews and specifications for Hankook Ventus TD Z221 Soft tires

1 star reclass +7
195 TD -3
shocks/springs +5
OS Giken +3
air dam +3
wing/nascar spoiler +4
=19

Or swap the air dam and wing out for a 2 star reclass if you can talk Greg into it. He wouldn't give a miata a 2 star reclass last I heard.
If that tire is actually available now that is a very big deal for PTE cars and especially TTE.

NB1 2400/151whp?
-10 195mm
7 Ventus TD
5 Xida
3 4.77 OSG
3 Down pipe/cat/exhaust
1 CAI
3 ECU
*

Thats a 1:37 car at Mid O.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:09 PM   #280
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I'm unfamiliar with Hankook's r-comps. Are those Z221s "soft" as soft as an A6/A7?
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