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Race Prep Miata race-only chat. 949 Racing - Rim & tires

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Old 11-12-2015, 09:40 PM   #501
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This just got posted to the PTE Facebook group.

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We would be looking at ST4 in '17, and maybe ST5. We don't have any solid plans right now except to go for ST4 if the ST3 changes work out this season. I doubt that we would do ST6 also in '17, but at this point, it is up in the air and possible. We do like the incremental approach, though.

Yes, starting with ST4 (well, really we started with ST3), there would be increasing restrictions and/or Modification Factors to equalize cars. The farther down the scale, the more we would have. This would likely necessarily include a vehicle model Modification Factor (table like the PT base table) that we think would be necessary once we get down in classes in order to equalize lets say a Kia Rio and an S2000, or an '83 RX-7 and a BMW M3....There must be something to account for the OEM engineering/build/aero differences in these lower classes, as we would not want to have lower classes that required someone to spend $30,000+ to modify a $4000 vehicle to be competitive. There is no decision on what level such a table would be needed, but I guess it would be at ST5 and below. Most likely, ST4 would maybe have just a few more restrictions/Mod Factors than ST3, but not a big difference.

I would think that we will have to let the ST3 and Avg HP process play out until about June to make sure there are no bugs.

Ultimately, if this all works out, we would likely eventually delete the PT classes completely, but only if we can maintain lower level classes that are cost-efficient, and that are actually easier to class, because we no longer need Dyno re-classing, internal engine mod points, points for so many different items, etc.

But, the bottom line is that I don't want the guys in PTD, PTE, PTF freaking out, because we completely understand what we need to do to make those lower level classes successful for our more budget oriented drivers. We will not end up with lower level classes that could require $150K cars to win races because of open rules. And, we will end up with classes that are competitive, consistent with the current PT unwritten philosophy that the lower you go down in class, the less it will cost to build a highly competitive vehicle, and with a classing system that is open, fair, allows for drivers to more easily class their cars, and doesn't require competitors to make big changes in their current vehicle configurations. If we cannot do all of this, then we will not switch from PT to ST."
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:54 PM   #502
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There's a PTE facebook group?
Is that were the proposed TT/PT B-F 2016 rules are? They aren't on the regular NASA forum yet.
Last year we had 12 days between when the TT/PT rules came out and our first event in the Texas region.

Oh and last spring I did finally sell the Sport brake setup (Calipers, Brackets, Master, Booster and Prop Valve) I bought in Dec of '13 before the '99-00 / '01-05 NB class split. I only lost $50 and shipping.
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Old 11-13-2015, 12:10 AM   #503
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First sentence says not until `17 at the earliest and only for PTB/PTC.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1652757551645592/
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:55 PM   #504
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New TT rules are out. https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...cial_Rules.pdf

My hopes of having my cake and eating it too by running the Rival S or RE071-R have been thwarted (+6 tires)
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Old 12-02-2015, 01:37 PM   #505
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Looks like all of the pre-approved Miata dyno reclasses have been nerfed.

Also new heavier base weights for all points based Miatas...

Mine went from 18.4 lbs/hp to 18.7 lbs/hp...

Last edited by Arca_ex; 12-02-2015 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 12-02-2015, 02:06 PM   #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Looks like all of the pre-approved Miata dyno reclasses have been nerfed.
Yeah, cracks me up, 1hp and 25lbs. 1hp, really? Are they just ******* with us for the fun of it?

robert
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Old 12-02-2015, 03:54 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by robertcope View Post
Yeah, cracks me up, 1hp and 25lbs. 1hp, really? Are they just ******* with us for the fun of it?

robert
No, theyre ******* with you because Miatas are too fast.
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:03 PM   #508
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Ugh, no more -10 rule for using 40mm size smaller than base class tires. Now I need to rethink my whole points structure.
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:09 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by dasting View Post
Ugh, no more -10 rule for using 40mm size smaller than base class tires. Now I need to rethink my whole points structure.
That ruins my other plan. Oh well. Back to the calculator.
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:49 PM   #510
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Pretty sure the points for -40mm tire ended in 2014.

Posted a query on NASA forums about points for the Kumho V720. Its in the same league as the RE71R. I think the current table favors with 205 RE71Rs if its a Miata.
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Old 12-02-2015, 06:21 PM   #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Pretty sure the points for -40mm tire ended in 2014.

Posted a query on NASA forums about points for the Kumho V720. Its in the same league as the RE71R. I think the current table favors with 205 RE71Rs if its a Miata.
-40mm rule was definitely still in place for 2015 season.

edit- never mind, forgot all new tires must be evaluated by TT director before treadwear rating stands.

Last edited by dasting; 12-02-2015 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 12-02-2015, 07:10 PM   #512
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With the new dyno reclass numbers, I foresee a lot of points builds for 2016
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Old 12-02-2015, 07:46 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by speedengineer View Post
With the new dyno reclass numbers, I foresee a lot of points builds for 2016
Probably not, since all of the base weights for Miatas got changed as well. Both points builds and dyno reclass builds got hit.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:21 PM   #514
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It doesn't really matter, everyone will be dyno classed by a formula in `17 or `18.
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:04 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Pretty sure the points for -40mm tire ended in 2014.

Posted a query on NASA forums about points for the Kumho V720. Its in the same league as the RE71R. I think the current table favors with 205 RE71Rs if its a Miata.
It was still in play last year, I was using it.
This changes my plans for 2016, gonna have to rethink this.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:49 AM   #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Probably not, since all of the base weights for Miatas got changed as well. Both points builds and dyno reclass builds got hit.
For a '99, it looks like the rules changes make a points car even a little more favorable over a Dyno reclass.

The only points car change was +10 lbs of base weight, which also changes the weight modification factor for the P/W calculation, .05 favorably.
So instead for 145hp for 2400 lbs w/ 205 tires, it allows 146hp for 2410 lbs w/ 205 tires. (W/P 16.507)

This looks much better than the Dyno reclass of 129hp at 2415 lbs, (W/P 18.72)

Under the 2015 rules, the points car didn't change W/P, but the Dyno reclass went from 18.38 to 18.72, 0.34 change almost 2%. Not much, but a little in wrong direction.

Last edited by EricJ; 12-03-2015 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 12-03-2015, 04:13 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by FatKao View Post
It doesn't really matter, everyone will be dyno classed by a formula in `17 or `18.
This. ST4/5/6 is coming.

I would love this idea if it weren't for the fact that Greg is leaning towards doing model specific mod factors so he's still able to dick over Miatas.
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Old 12-03-2015, 10:41 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraemeD View Post
It was still in play last year, I was using it.
This changes my plans for 2016, gonna have to rethink this.
Deep down, I was hoping the RE71R would be a 2pt tire..... so I could run full aero


These changes are minimal, but I am glad I have a NB1 points car over dyno-reclass.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:13 PM   #519
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Just remember, everyone:

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Originally Posted by Greg Greenbaum, April 2014
This is what happens when the rules get pushed--more written rules, more time for the competitor to transfer information, more waste of my time.
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Old 12-03-2015, 12:47 PM   #520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
For a '99, it looks like the rules changes make a points car even a little more favorable over a Dyno reclass.

The only points car change was +10 lbs of base weight, which also changes the weight modification factor for the P/W calculation, .05 favorably.
So instead for 145hp for 2400 lbs w/ 205 tires, it allows 146hp for 2410 lbs w/ 205 tires. (W/P 16.507)

This looks much better than the Dyno reclass of 129hp at 2415 lbs, (W/P 18.72)

Under the 2015 rules, the points car didn't change W/P, but the Dyno reclass went from 18.38 to 18.72, 0.34 change almost 2%. Not much, but a little in wrong direction.
Yup! Granted you'd have to compare a PTE* reclass to be fair.
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