Adventures in PTE/TTE - Page 27 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat. 949 Racing - Rim & tires

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-04-2015, 06:32 PM   #521
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 216
Total Cats: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedengineer View Post
Yup! Granted you'd have to compare a PTE* reclass to be fair.
Why, both the '99 points and dyno reclass cars are TTE/PTE (no star)?

And I forgot to measure actual w/p above, instead of adjusted. It really is just a little better for the points car than I originally calculated.

2015
Points - 2400 lbs @ 145 hp = 16.557 actual, w/ weight and tire (205) adjustment 16.507
Dyno Reclass - 2390 lbs @ 130 hp = 18.38

2016 -
Points - 2410 lbs @ 146 hp = 16.506, no adjustment weight = tire (205)
Dyno Reclass - 2415 lbs @ 129 hp = 18.72

Change from 2015 to 2016 -
Points 16.557 - 16.506 = .051
Dyno Reclass 18.38 - 18.72 = -.34
Total change .051 + .34 = .391 ~ 2.3%

So now the points car has 2.214 w/p advantage ~ 13.4%; instead of 1.82 w/p ~ 11.0%

But this is all just a math exercise, the real question is:
How much money will it take to reach 146hp using only 9 points?

Last edited by EricJ; 12-04-2015 at 06:48 PM.
EricJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 06:49 PM   #522
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 250
Total Cats: 37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Just remember, everyone:
Are you saying I shouldn't build a boosted motor with curves like this, to comply with the new average hp rules coming in 2017? (peak 165whp @4k rpm, calculated average hp of ~135whp, useable whp across 2k rpm range of 160whp)

Attached Thumbnails
Adventures in PTE/TTE-45oxizu.png  
dasting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 07:32 PM   #523
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,537
Total Cats: 840
Default

Average hp rule.. Where have I seen that before?

(couldn't resist)


Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
But this is all just a math exercise, the real question is:
How much money will it take to reach 146hp using only 9 points?
+1 intake $70
+3 ECU $1300
+3 exhaust $400

E85 needed. $4000-7500 for blueprinted longblock, depending on how much high rev protection you want. Or zero if you have a healthy OEM engine and plan to keep revs below 7400. Might have trouble reaching power cap with stock crate motor though.

Only now the intake manifold is free since you're doing it with an NB1 instead of swapping in an NB2.

/threadjack
Attached Thumbnails
Adventures in PTE/TTE-supermiata_sample_dyno_2014.jpg  

Last edited by emilio700; 12-04-2015 at 07:45 PM.
emilio700 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2015, 11:36 PM   #524
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 617
Total Cats: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
Why, both the '99 points and dyno reclass cars are TTE/PTE (no star)?

And I forgot to measure actual w/p above, instead of adjusted. It really is just a little better for the points car than I originally calculated.

2015
Points - 2400 lbs @ 145 hp = 16.557 actual, w/ weight and tire (205) adjustment 16.507
Dyno Reclass - 2390 lbs @ 130 hp = 18.38

2016 -
Points - 2410 lbs @ 146 hp = 16.506, no adjustment weight = tire (205)
Dyno Reclass - 2415 lbs @ 129 hp = 18.72

Change from 2015 to 2016 -
Points 16.557 - 16.506 = .051
Dyno Reclass 18.38 - 18.72 = -.34
Total change .051 + .34 = .391 ~ 2.3%

So now the points car has 2.214 w/p advantage ~ 13.4%; instead of 1.82 w/p ~ 11.0%

But this is all just a math exercise, the real question is:
How much money will it take to reach 146hp using only 9 points?
That is not an accurate comparison. You need to compare a car dyno reclassed with a PTE* base class.

PTE* used to be 17.3lbs/HP with a 1994 chassis and now for 2016 it is 17.6lbs/HP. So 17.6 on dyno reclass versus 16.5 on points build.
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 02:32 PM   #525
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 216
Total Cats: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
That is not an accurate comparison. You need to compare a car dyno reclassed with a PTE* base class.

PTE* used to be 17.3lbs/HP with a 1994 chassis and now for 2016 it is 17.6lbs/HP. So 17.6 on dyno reclass versus 16.5 on points build.
Oops, did I fail to preference the analysis with "For a '99"?
I was only looking at Points car vs. Pre-approved Dyno Reclass in Appendix C, for the car I currently own; and how the 2016 rules changed from the 2015 rules.

It would be a big task to analyse all Miata models for points vs dyno reclass, both Pre-approved in Appendix C and the individual reclasses, for both 2016 and 2015.
EricJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 10:19 PM   #526
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 617
Total Cats: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricJ View Post
Oops, did I fail to preference the analysis with "For a '99"?
I was only looking at Points car vs. Pre-approved Dyno Reclass in Appendix C, for the car I currently own; and how the 2016 rules changed from the 2015 rules.

It would be a big task to analyse all Miata models for points vs dyno reclass, both Pre-approved in Appendix C and the individual reclasses, for both 2016 and 2015.
You're missing the point I'm making. Ignore the model year if you want, even though a '94 and '99 dyno reclass are almost the same. When you build a 99 points car you are going to chew up at least 7 points on the engine mods section for power. Since dyno reclass has no engine mod points taken, you get to spend that 7 points on a PTE* base class instead.

Comparing a PTE base class points car to a PTE base class dyno reclassed car is not an even comparison.
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2015, 10:37 PM   #527
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 250
Total Cats: 37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
You're missing the point I'm making. Ignore the model year if you want, even though a '94 and '99 dyno reclass are almost the same. When you build a 99 points car you are going to chew up at least 7 points on the engine mods section for power. Since dyno reclass has no engine mod points taken, you get to spend that 7 points on a PTE* base class instead.

Comparing a PTE base class points car to a PTE base class dyno reclassed car is not an even comparison.
yep.

tl;dr- PTE* gets you more power per weight than PTE, and that's the comparison that should be made.

No one dyno reclasses to a no-asterisk base class. Or at least they shouldn't. The power advantage is worth more in lap times than basically any other mod except maybe being on edge of running a significantly stickier tire.
dasting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2015, 01:12 PM   #528
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 369
Total Cats: 13
Default

******* added 90# to my 2001 dyno reclass.... gotta kick that dead horse.

17.96:1
FatKao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2015, 05:12 PM   #529
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,901
Total Cats: 14
Default

90lbs?! Damn.....almost close to TTF ratio :-/. Doesn't make much sense.
flier129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2015, 07:18 PM   #530
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 175
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
90lbs?! Damn.....almost close to TTF ratio :-/. Doesn't make much sense.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no.

My reclass last year was 117whp at 2460. This year? 117whp at 2570lb. Thats going from a 21.02 p/w ratio to a 21.96 p/w ratio. Meanwhile, my competition at 2630-2675 has anywhere from 128-135whp.

It doesnt matter how good my setup is, or how stellar I drive the car, or how well I manage traffic, I was barely able to compete previously, and now, after taking an almost 2 whole number hit in power to weight ratio?

Guess I will build that STL motor after all.
cucamelsmd15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 09:42 AM   #531
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 250
Total Cats: 37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FatKao View Post
******* added 90# to my 2001 dyno reclass.... gotta kick that dead horse.

17.96:1
Exact same for me. I'm now 143whp at 2570 pounds. ****. I don't even have a built motor with a flat hp curve or anything.
dasting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2015, 11:52 AM   #532
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,901
Total Cats: 14
Default

I really need to get my car on a dynojet. Safe to say if it puts down 135rwhp on a mustang it will do 140+ on a dynojet? ****, it might do 160+rwhp on that crazy dyno they roll out to nationals.....
flier129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 12:34 AM   #533
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 617
Total Cats: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
I really need to get my car on a dynojet. Safe to say if it puts down 135rwhp on a mustang it will do 140+ on a dynojet? ****, it might do 160+rwhp on that crazy dyno they roll out to nationals.....
Honestly Mustang dynos can be manipulated easily to read as high or as low as you want. You have to trust the operator who sets up and runs it, maybe see if there are other customers that have done back to back runs on that particular dyno and a dynojet on the same day.

And yeah, take two dice and give them a roll, that's about the best way try and guess how much variance you will have on the MCE mobile dyno.
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 01:07 AM   #534
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: KY
Posts: 621
Total Cats: 34
Default

Have you guys already requested new reclasses or is he sending out updates with the +90lb? All of my reclasses are from 2014 so I have to request a new one no matter what. Am I seeing this right that cars with 2015 reclasses are going to have a 90lb advantage?
jpreston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 03:00 AM   #535
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 617
Total Cats: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
Have you guys already requested new reclasses or is he sending out updates with the +90lb? All of my reclasses are from 2014 so I have to request a new one no matter what. Am I seeing this right that cars with 2015 reclasses are going to have a 90lb advantage?
No. It says in the rule book that any cars that have a change in their base class or base weight listing need a new reclass. Every single Miata in the list had a change made, so every single Miata dyno reclass with a date before the 2016 rules release is now invalid and you need to request a new one.
Arca_ex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2015, 03:28 PM   #536
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: KY
Posts: 621
Total Cats: 34
Default

Yep, you're right. I forgot about this line. Thanks.

Quote:
Any vehicle that has b
een re
-
classed by the National T
T Director and has had a change to
either
its base class or its base
weight in the table in Section 8
.2.2 since the re
-
classification
was approved, MUST be re
-
submitted for re
-
classification.
jpreston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2015, 01:27 AM   #537
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: KY
Posts: 621
Total Cats: 34
Default

Wrong thread I know, but has anyone requested a 2016 D reclass yet?
jpreston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2015, 03:07 AM   #538
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 250
Total Cats: 37
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
Wrong thread I know, but has anyone requested a 2016 D reclass yet?
Yeah. 143whp at 2220lbs for D or 2180 for D*.
dasting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2015, 12:20 AM   #539
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 20
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
Wrong thread I know, but has anyone requested a 2016 D reclass yet?
Jeff my D reclass is D 2180/140

I haven't bothered getting an E reclass.
Codersozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2015, 09:34 AM   #540
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Hagerstown, MD
Posts: 140
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Codersozer View Post
Jeff my D reclass is D 2180/140

I haven't bothered getting an E reclass.
1.8L non-vvt NA?
ericwh is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
elesjuan's mediocre 95 Miata adventure (google fiber edition) elesjuan Build Threads 8 02-16-2016 09:36 PM
Noob Supercharger Build Blog zazzy Supercharger Discussion 7 10-01-2015 02:09 PM
Annoying little leaks AlwaysBroken Engine Performance 5 09-06-2015 01:53 AM
Who is into adventure games? Reverant Insert BS here 15 10-27-2010 08:58 AM


Tags
nasa, pte, tte

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:03 PM.