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Old 06-16-2013, 07:38 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by 1993ka24det View Post

I was reading about how the front tires on a F1 car will go from 100% grip in a straight line to 20% when taking a corner (of course it would be the inside tire of the corner).
I need some more explanation on this one. I'm not sure what you're getting at.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:03 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
That's what the W duct is for.
What do you mean? W?

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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
I need some more explanation on this one. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

When a F1 car takes a corner, the tire that is on the inside of the turn will loose the amount of traction it has with the ground. Why not create more downforce on that tire.
Here is a pics of a Formula that ramped the inside tire off of the gator strip.



I found this bumper that is on the 2012 911 GT3 RSR, when I was looking for Crusher style bumpers on other cars to get some ideas.

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Old 06-16-2013, 08:31 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1993ka24det View Post
What do you mean? W?
google.com F1 w duct
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:54 PM   #324
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Oh Ya that is the same thing I post a few pages ago


I wish there was a way of Formula 1 could move technology along by going into uncharted territory. I know they are doing next year of a Double KERS-- electric motor attached to the front of the turbo for anti-lag.

The sanctioning body (FIA) is always making the car slower by the rules and the engineers find ways around it. So one year they should do active aero (moving parts) besides the DRS. I want to see what Adrian Newey would come up with.
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:38 PM   #325
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There was a good article in Racer earlier this year about F1 with no limits. They outlined all kinds of technology that exists that the teams can't exploit due to the rules limiting the performance of the car. Example: paint that has molecules that stand up when braking and an electric current is applied. This would be used for extra drag to aid in braking.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:43 AM   #326
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Part of the limits put on Fi is to help keep the drivers safe. We haven't lost a driver in almost 20 years. A few decades earlier, drivers were killed almost every year. Sid Watkins had a lot to do with the current safety focus after he watched Senna die so hopefully everyone will stay sane and the controls will remain in place now that he is gone. Any series with that much money involved that was truly unlimited would result in body bags needed every season. Personally, I'm happy to leave some potential lap time on the table if I don't need to see someone die on my TV.

Grand Prix: The Killer Years on Vimeo
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:59 AM   #327
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Part of the limits put on Fi is to help keep the drivers safe. We haven't lost a driver in almost 20 years. A few decades earlier, drivers were killed almost every year. Sid Watkins had a lot to do with the current safety focus after he watched Senna die so hopefully everyone will stay sane and the controls will remain in place now that he is gone. Any series with that much money involved that was truly unlimited would result in body bags needed every season. Personally, I'm happy to leave some potential lap time on the table if I don't need to see someone die on my TV.

Grand Prix: The Killer Years on Vimeo
True, but they are also slowing the cars down to nearly GP2 levels....that's taking a bit too far in the other extreme. With the exception of the street courses, all the tracks on the calendar are incredibly safe in regards to run-off, safety staff, etc.

I'd like to see a budget cap and greatly reduced regulations. But I'll stop there since we are drifting off-topic.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:51 PM   #328
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Safety is important, but neutering the cars in the name of safety is a cop-out (look at IndyCar)

I prefer budget and or fuel quantity restrictions.
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:05 PM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_hyde View Post
Part of the limits put on Fi is to help keep the drivers safe. We haven't lost a driver in almost 20 years. A few decades earlier, drivers were killed almost every year. Sid Watkins had a lot to do with the current safety focus after he watched Senna die so hopefully everyone will stay sane and the controls will remain in place now that he is gone. Any series with that much money involved that was truly unlimited would result in body bags needed every season. Personally, I'm happy to leave some potential lap time on the table if I don't need to see someone die on my TV.

Grand Prix: The Killer Years on Vimeo
The teams claim thy can make them safer and much faster. Closed cockpits are one huge safety issue they address. I could post the article but don't want to infringe on any rules here.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:26 AM   #330
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Might've gotten just a few of his ideas from the Peugot 208..
Really? I didn't think there was anything particularly noteworthy about the car. Well, besides the fact that it's probably the most well-developed car to race at PPIHC in years and will obliterate this year's field as well as the overall record if it doesn't break.

Also, with all this talk about active aero, check out Aeromotions. They've been doing this stuff for years and have a nicely refined solution. It's expensive, but it's certainly something to aim for!

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Old 06-18-2013, 02:28 AM   #331
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For F1 and other race series it is just in the rules for no moveable aerodynamic devices.

In F1 they added the stuff for "two position wings" to try to increase passing, along with a bunch of rule relating to how often it can be used like they are only allowed to switch it twice a lap, etc, so it is movable, but limited so its not full on active aero


on a slightly different topic,

This is I believe an LMP2 cars nose off the car at the prep for the 24 hour race,

Smooth and contoured to the wheel in the front, and then all the venting above and to the rear of the wheel. Have not seen any good pictures to how the suspension is routed to see how they use that to help vent air in/out thou
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:05 PM   #332
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A bit more on topic, can someone explain why Peugeot setup the front aero the way they have on Loeb's Pikes Peak Challenger?

Around the front seems quite different to how aero is typically handled, on production bodied cars? Mainly the way air is being routed/blocked around the end of the splitter?

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Old 06-18-2013, 04:57 PM   #333
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Are you referring to the lack of dive planes/spats?
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:05 PM   #334
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Pike's Peak unlimited class vehicles are just that; unlimited. As a result they can do stuff with aero that isn't legal or feasible elsewhere. One example is the giant vertical panels on either side of the splitter. The idea is to force as much air up and over the car as possible, producing downforce on its own and feeding the rear wing.

It's not a new solution. See the Suzuki below.

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Old 06-18-2013, 05:40 PM   #335
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The splitter end plates also serve to prevent the air from spilling off when you turn.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:11 PM   #336
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All that splitter length and not much isolating it on the sides. Fail or no fail?

Am I crazy in thinking that setups like these are probably backyard fabricators who looked at some pictures of Group B rally cars?
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:25 PM   #337
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Some of that splitter isnt doing something. You're only going to be able to make a certain sized zone of high pressure above the splitter without it spilling off or flowing through the radiator or over the top of the car. You'll also notice the front scraper thingy that is preventing air from traveling under the splitter that certainly isnt helping the bernoulli effect downforce from the splitter. I would expect that car to suffer from a massive mid corner and corner exit snap push. All of a sudden the high pressure stuck on that splitter when going straight will spill off once the car turns in. I know I feel it sometimes in my car on long (for auto-x) sweepers. I'm sure the road race guys with splitters on the bigger end of the spectrum feel it, the more the splitter sticks out the more noticeable it is (in theory).
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:40 PM   #338
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I was some where on a Japanese forum that I read, that the splitter efficiency drops of after 100-120mm if there isn't anything else besides the splitter.
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:15 AM   #339
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:51 AM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1993ka24det View Post
I was some where on a Japanese forum that I read, that the splitter efficiency drops of after 100-120mm if there isn't anything else besides the splitter.
that is correct, at a certain length the splitter becomes less efficient and becomes a source of drag.
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