Gearbox options/experiences
03-28-2014, 02:26 PM
#222
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,478
Total Cats: 144
We are talking with a supplier (not PAR, Quaife or BAR) to get 6spd gearsets and steel shift forks for the AZ-6. I'm leaning towards one ratio option close to what Andrew and I posted above, dog engagement, helical gears. Torque capacity would be a close to 400lbs as we could get. The Stock AZ-6 is nominally rated for about 200lbs. At 300 + the lifespan gets measured in hours, 400+ measured in minutes.
Target gear ratios, or something near this
2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
We would have to get about 20 orders. Ball park is about $3100 for the parts kit.
ETA would be roughly 10 months from green lighting the project to you door.
Dog box allows for greater strength but is only happy when banging through gears. Shifting slow on the street can be a PITA. For those that have never clutchless shifted a close ratio dog box, it's only slightly less awesome than a full sequential.
Thoughts?
Target gear ratios, or something near this
2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
We would have to get about 20 orders. Ball park is about $3100 for the parts kit.
ETA would be roughly 10 months from green lighting the project to you door.
Dog box allows for greater strength but is only happy when banging through gears. Shifting slow on the street can be a PITA. For those that have never clutchless shifted a close ratio dog box, it's only slightly less awesome than a full sequential.
Thoughts?
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03-28-2014, 03:29 PM
#225
If the initial proposal comes back good from the supplier, I'll start a new thread. I'd pay for the tooling and initial deposit so kit deposits wouldn't be needed until Q3 I think. My guess is delivery in Q2/15 or thereabouts.
What I'm considering, and so is the supplier, is the potential for cross platform compatibility between some or all the kit components. IOW, if the 86 kids can haz dogs too, our costs come down even further.
What I'm considering, and so is the supplier, is the potential for cross platform compatibility between some or all the kit components. IOW, if the 86 kids can haz dogs too, our costs come down even further.
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03-28-2014, 03:55 PM
#226
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,478
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Yes by my estimates it would be near perfect for a combination of both autocross and road racing with the ratios Emilio is quoting combined with a 3.909 rear for a 250-400 hp miata.
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03-28-2014, 04:23 PM
#227
Can they do anything about the sloppy as hell feel of the 6-speed shifter gates while they're in there replacing things? I like the 5-speed feel way better than the 6-speed. If my Quaife set blows up, then I'll be next on the list for one of these just out of necessity, but I would never replace the 5-speed/Quaife with one of these proposed boxes if the shifter feels like a normal 6-speed shifter.
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03-28-2014, 04:27 PM
#228
Can they do anything about the sloppy as hell feel of the 6-speed shifter gates while they're in there replacing things? I like the 5-speed feel way better than the 6-speed. If my Quaife set blows up, then I'll be next on the list for one of these just out of necessity, but I would never replace the 5-speed/Quaife with one of these proposed boxes if the shifter feels like a normal 6-speed shifter.
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03-28-2014, 04:48 PM
#229
Bit on my tracks the 4.875 works.
However, I cannot join the initial group buy, even though the estimated price is a steal.
$5k for an assembled box (no core) shipped to a container in FL? Just trying to figure out the options (skipping tax on kit and labor would be nice).
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03-28-2014, 05:34 PM
#231
We are talking with a supplier (not PAR, Quaife or BAR) to get 6spd gearsets and steel shift forks for the AZ-6. I'm leaning towards one ratio option close to what Andrew and I posted above, dog engagement, helical gears. Torque capacity would be a close to 400lbs as we could get. The Stock AZ-6 is nominally rated for about 200lbs. At 300 + the lifespan gets measured in hours, 400+ measured in minutes.
Target gear ratios, or something near this
2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
We would have to get about 20 orders. Ball park is about $3100 for the parts kit.
ETA would be roughly 10 months from green lighting the project to you door.
Dog box allows for greater strength but is only happy when banging through gears. Shifting slow on the street can be a PITA. For those that have never clutchless shifted a close ratio dog box, it's only slightly less awesome than a full sequential.
Thoughts?
Target gear ratios, or something near this
2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
We would have to get about 20 orders. Ball park is about $3100 for the parts kit.
ETA would be roughly 10 months from green lighting the project to you door.
Dog box allows for greater strength but is only happy when banging through gears. Shifting slow on the street can be a PITA. For those that have never clutchless shifted a close ratio dog box, it's only slightly less awesome than a full sequential.
Thoughts?
Reply
0
0
03-28-2014, 05:54 PM
#232
Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,478
Total Cats: 144
With a 4.3 it would suit a N/A racer quite well.
Bit on my tracks the 4.875 works.
However, I cannot join the initial group buy, even though the estimated price is a steal.
$5k for an assembled box (no core) shipped to a container in FL? Just trying to figure out the options (skipping tax on kit and labor would be nice).
Bit on my tracks the 4.875 works.
However, I cannot join the initial group buy, even though the estimated price is a steal.
$5k for an assembled box (no core) shipped to a container in FL? Just trying to figure out the options (skipping tax on kit and labor would be nice).
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03-28-2014, 05:57 PM
#233
This a racing dog box conversion. Sucks on the street if you ever need to drive slow. Do a youtube search on dog box shifting. Basically they only shift smoothly if you shift as fast as you can move the lever and barely lift. Anything other than that and you feel like you're stirring an adjustable wrench in a bucket o bolts.
So "street manners" depends on the civility of your driving habits I suppose.
By eliminating the space taken up for syncros, we can make the gears wider. This is critical to gain torque capacity. Beyond that, a dog engagement can be shifted at <100ms where even the best syncros struggle to get to 150ms even with our twin. Syncros wear out when shifted like that, dogs tolerate it much better. In the real world, every shift will be about 200-300ms quicker with a dog vs syncro. That's time not spent coasting which comes directly off your lap time.
For what you do with your car, I'd stick with our twin clutch and a healthy AZ-6 with MTG in it. Make sure all the shifter bushings are new and properly installed. Useless 1st but 2nd through 6th are great at 160whp/7000rpm
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03-28-2014, 05:59 PM
#234
This a racing dog box conversion. Sucks on the street if you ever need to drive slow. Do a youtube search on dog box shifting. Basically they only shift smoothly if you shift as fast as you can move the lever and barely lift. Anything other than that and you feel like you're stirring an adjustable wrench in a bucket o bolts.
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