Gearbox options/experiences
03-29-2014, 04:50 AM
#243
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It was $2,680.00 shipped on the day I ordered it. I'm not sure what has happened to the exchange rate, shipping costs or the price of the kit since. I placed the order on January 27th and it arrived at my house on March 24th.
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03-29-2014, 11:19 AM
#244
If the initial proposal comes back good from the supplier, I'll start a new thread. I'd pay for the tooling and initial deposit so kit deposits wouldn't be needed until Q3 I think. My guess is delivery in Q2/15 or thereabouts.
What I'm considering, and so is the supplier, is the potential for cross platform compatibility between some or all the kit components. IOW, if the 86 kids can haz dogs too, our costs come down even further.
What I'm considering, and so is the supplier, is the potential for cross platform compatibility between some or all the kit components. IOW, if the 86 kids can haz dogs too, our costs come down even further.
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03-29-2014, 12:31 PM
#245
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Sign me up as interested. Dammit, Emilio, you're going to make me suffer through the first world dilemma of having to choose between CNC head goodness or transmission goodness.
Future availability of the gearset will be on a small-batch minimum order basis? Or potentially stocked.
Future availability of the gearset will be on a small-batch minimum order basis? Or potentially stocked.
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03-29-2014, 12:48 PM
#246
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In for Thomas answer, but hell yeah. Thanks for pioneering the way... well be glad to step up. Good timing as perhaps the track car will be ready by then and I'll need something capable of 350ftlbs
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03-29-2014, 04:23 PM
#248
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Will this be a miata specific thing, our can/will you market to Nissan and other guys?
Reason I ask, is because I run with several other Nissan 240 guys who might step up for a dog box...
Reason I ask, is because I run with several other Nissan 240 guys who might step up for a dog box...
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03-31-2014, 05:15 AM
#253
These guys are talking Albins Gear dog set, this part in particular caught my attention:
"All Albins dogs feature a CAD “pent-roof” pentagon-shaped surface that deflects the dogs apart on a mis-shift, drastically extending the life of the gear. Albins dog gears are verified using a robotic CMM (coordinate measuring machine) to assure perfection with tolerances better than 0.015 mm on each and every part. Furthermore, Albins has been able to produce its own proprietary steel alloy with a consistency far superior to mass-produced, low-cost sets."
Synchromesh vs. Dog Box - Gearbox Beatdown - Import Tuner Magazine
Does PAR or PPG have anything like that? Could be sales up-talk but what do I know, I'm not a machinist :P
"All Albins dogs feature a CAD “pent-roof” pentagon-shaped surface that deflects the dogs apart on a mis-shift, drastically extending the life of the gear. Albins dog gears are verified using a robotic CMM (coordinate measuring machine) to assure perfection with tolerances better than 0.015 mm on each and every part. Furthermore, Albins has been able to produce its own proprietary steel alloy with a consistency far superior to mass-produced, low-cost sets."
Synchromesh vs. Dog Box - Gearbox Beatdown - Import Tuner Magazine
Does PAR or PPG have anything like that? Could be sales up-talk but what do I know, I'm not a machinist :P
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04-01-2014, 01:06 PM
#256
We are talking with a supplier (not PAR, Quaife or BAR) to get 6spd gearsets and steel shift forks for the AZ-6. I'm leaning towards one ratio option close to what Andrew and I posted above, dog engagement, helical gears. Torque capacity would be a close to 400lbs as we could get. The Stock AZ-6 is nominally rated for about 200lbs. At 300 + the lifespan gets measured in hours, 400+ measured in minutes.
Target gear ratios, or something near this
2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
We would have to get about 20 orders. Ball park is about $3100 for the parts kit.
ETA would be roughly 10 months from green lighting the project to you door.
Dog box allows for greater strength but is only happy when banging through gears. Shifting slow on the street can be a PITA. For those that have never clutchless shifted a close ratio dog box, it's only slightly less awesome than a full sequential.
Thoughts?
Target gear ratios, or something near this
2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
We would have to get about 20 orders. Ball park is about $3100 for the parts kit.
ETA would be roughly 10 months from green lighting the project to you door.
Dog box allows for greater strength but is only happy when banging through gears. Shifting slow on the street can be a PITA. For those that have never clutchless shifted a close ratio dog box, it's only slightly less awesome than a full sequential.
Thoughts?
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04-01-2014, 01:27 PM
#257
Looks really good, I would definitely be in. One question why not go with straight cut gears? Less parasitic drag, and I think straight cut gears are stronger and easier to manufacture? This transmission would be a good option for EP and FP cars, with a pit gear to boot!!
I'm just blissed to be able to do dog engagement. I won't know how much torque capacity we'll gain but anything will be an improvement at this point. Not a concern for EP/FP guys I know but the ratios and dogs should easily make up for the few hp you toss away lugging around gears made for 300lbs tq
On a side note, it sounds like we will be able to tweak the shifter geometry. The 5 speed has slightly wider spaced gates. I'll try to match that with the SPMAZ6. Move them a few mm further apart and take slop out to make it a more positive mechanical engagement feel. When stock AZ-6s are in good condition, they shift great. Any bushing or shift fork wear and a stock AZ-6 quickly becomes unpleasant and balky. Hopefully we can address that as well.
__________________
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04-01-2014, 02:35 PM
#258
This particular manufacture simply doesn't like straight cut gears. I asked, they said, "er, ah, we don't like straight cut gears". For them doing helicals right is a matter of pride from what I gather. Tiny gains in power from straight cut but very noisy. Beautiful noise it could be argued, but there you have it.
I'm just blissed to be able to do dog engagement. I won't know how much torque capacity we'll gain but anything will be an improvement at this point. Not a concern for EP/FP guys I know but the ratios and dogs should easily make up for the few hp you toss away lugging around gears made for 300lbs tq
.
I'm just blissed to be able to do dog engagement. I won't know how much torque capacity we'll gain but anything will be an improvement at this point. Not a concern for EP/FP guys I know but the ratios and dogs should easily make up for the few hp you toss away lugging around gears made for 300lbs tq
.
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04-01-2014, 02:52 PM
#259
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Along the same lines, when I went to the AEM's tuner school the instructor showed how he set up a load cell/strain gauge on the shift handle to trigger the Gen1 AEM EMS cut the ignition, for super fast dogbox shifts. That as trick.
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