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Old 03-12-2014, 05:09 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
PAR has a bog box conversion for the AZ6. Personally, if I'm spending $4-7k for a race transmission, it won't have synchros.

Further, BAR's (Ron Olsen) AZ6 sequential is probably another year and a half away and will be optimized for EP power. F/I not welcome. While a full sequential is sexy, a good dog box will shift just as fast, only limited by the movement of the H pattern shifter. For now, the PAR AZ6 dog conversion with about a 2.8 1st and maybe .87 6th would be nice.
Got it. Agreed. Start stocking them for $3K

On a serious note, would specifying one with dogs that give a "wide window of oportunity" for streetability make them suck for flatout application?
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:37 PM   #182
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Pretty much decided i am having a custom box made. next question is 5 or 6 speed case and 5 or 6 speed box.

what are considered 'ideal' ratios for a 400-450whp race car?
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:09 PM   #183
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1.55
1.25
1.0
0.85

Doesn't matter whether they're in the 3-4-5-6 position or the 2-3-4-5 position.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:27 PM   #184
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what about a gear for getting off the line? ~2.5?

i'm thinking 5 speed at the moment as is the builder to give more room for bigger/stronger gears.

What about a 5 speed box in a 6 speed housing? you think the stronger case would be worth it? the 5 speed has a better shift.

Last edited by mr2daj; 03-12-2014 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:40 PM   #185
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i dont understand why you would bother with custom gears in a stock case at this level. buy a racing tranny and adapt it, Quick time has all the info they need as the already offer a bell housing for a 4bolt muncie,t10 pattern to a BP. They should be able to make you a housing to fitt and gearbox pattern you want.

Gforce allows you to specify ratios and output shafts, why not go with a dog box thats been engineered as a unit and not some gears in a old case. The cost should be about the same.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:53 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hankclaussen View Post
Got it. Agreed. Start stocking them for $3K

On a serious note, would specifying one with dogs that give a "wide window of oportunity" for streetability make them suck for flatout application?
Do a little research Hank, geez. Dog boxes are flatout.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
1.55
1.25
1.0
0.85

Doesn't matter whether they're in the 3-4-5-6 position or the 2-3-4-5 position.
My worksheet so far
4500-9000rpm
4.3 diff

2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:53 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Do a little research Hank, geez. Dog boxes are flatout.




My worksheet so far
4500-9000rpm
4.3 diff

2.8
2
1.52
1.22
1
.87
Awful close to a Nismo AZ6

2.987
1.989
1.537
1.218
1
.862

HPI 6-Speed Cross Transmission S13 S14 S15 Silvia 180SX - RHDJapan

lists confirmed torque compatability 362 ft-lbs
confirmed power compatability 424 Hp

Wish they made that in a direct miata fit.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:12 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Awful close to a Nismo AZ6

2.987
1.989
1.537
1.218
1
.862

HPI 6-Speed Cross Transmission S13 S14 S15 Silvia 180SX - RHDJapan

lists confirmed torque compatability 362 ft-lbs
confirmed power compatability 424 Hp

Wish they made that in a direct miata fit.
I shot them an email. For $4000 though, I'd spend the extra $2.5k and get a dog conversion from PAR
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:15 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Do a little research Hank, geez. Dog boxes are flatout.


No, more specifically if we're talking about total custom... I am talking about this:


Quote:
Originally Posted by importtuner


The number of dogs (teeth) and the size of the openings determine the window of opportunity that the dogs have to engage during the shift event. Rings with a smaller number of teeth provide a more efficient, smoother shift quality. The downsides to this easier engagement are increased noise and abruptness on the shift.

I would guess that noise and abruptness of shift matter little to none - just curious if there was any other insight on this part.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:47 AM   #190
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I want a quick shifter. I'm sure that'll be fun.
I like my clutch though.
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:44 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impuls View Post
I want a quick shifter. I'm sure that'll be fun.
I like my clutch though.
You still have a clutch with a dog box, you just don't use it once you're moving, unless you have to shift slowly.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:04 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
You still have a clutch with a dog box, you just don't use it once you're moving, unless you have to shift slowly.
True, personally I find no down side to dogbox gears. I'd love to have them.
The sound too...mmm mmm mmm.

Actually isn't the 6speed equipped with a straight cut reverse? I buddy with the S2K says his is.
He's putting 400hp/290ft/lbs down. He's been told not to do long pulls in 5/6th as it'll put to much load.
Seemed correct when I think about it.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:29 AM   #193
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Whats the issue with 5th? Isnt that the direct drive gear? Well besides the s2k having a set of drop gears. Sounds more like, "you boost control setup cant control your boost in 5th and 6th at WOT."
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:46 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impuls View Post
True, personally I find no down side to dogbox gears. I'd love to have them.
The sound too...mmm mmm mmm.

Actually isn't the 6speed equipped with a straight cut reverse? I buddy with the S2K says his is.
He's putting 400hp/290ft/lbs down. He's been told not to do long pulls in 5/6th as it'll put to much load.
Seemed correct when I think about it.
4th is the weakest link in the Miata 6speed. 5th doesn't use any gears. its just the input shaft locked to the output shaft via the slip ring cant loose 5th unless you brake a shift fork.
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Old 03-14-2014, 06:58 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Sounds more like, "you boost control setup cant control your boost in 5th and 6th at WOT."
I believe this.
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:13 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Further, BAR's (Ron Olsen) AZ6 sequential is probably another year and a half away and will be optimized for EP power. F/I not welcome.
Ron was talking 250 torque limit on the sequential in the 6 speed case. I hope to squeez under the limit with my low torque Rotrex power plant.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:29 PM   #197
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after further talks with my box builder these are the ratios he recommends.

2.214
1.625
1.276
1.050
0.900

thoughts? i have all graphs etc if there is a way to attach an excel document.
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:42 PM   #198
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4. 1 rear end? Sub 140mph top end, no?
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Old 03-16-2014, 01:50 PM   #199
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no its a 3.636 rear end. 150mph @ 7250rpm
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:09 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Awful close to a Nismo AZ6

Wish they made that in a direct miata fit.
Won't the gears and guts out of one AZ6 fit into another case?
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