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Old 12-15-2014, 03:43 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
Exactly. Large farm tractors are "only" 500-600 horsepower, less than F1 cars. But, given that their average operating speeds are in the 1-4mph range, compared to 100+ for F1 cars, the fan and shrouding requirements for them is massive.

For cars on track at speed, the key requirements are that the incoming air be ducted such that it must pass through the heat exchangers rather than around them, and that the airflow then be given an exit from the engine bay. The stock undertray provides the second part. For greater heat rejection the hood can be vented. For advanced aero configurations (flat/partial flat underbody, front splitters, etc) care must be taken when venting the hood to ensure the trans and diff still receive enough airflow to be properly cooled.
Interesting fact.

Power draw from engine to turn a cooling fan on a 600hp class 8 highway truck can reach as much as 90 hp!
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:09 PM   #202
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Quote:
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Interesting fact.

Power draw from engine to turn a cooling fan on a 600hp class 8 highway truck can reach as much as 90 hp!
90hp fan for reference
90 hp 66 diameter 85,000 cfm adjustable pitch tube-axial fan [90HP] - $8,995.00 : Cavlon Online Store

I have no personal feeling to how much 85,000 cfm is, but 40m3/s sounds "decent" (my small living room per second).
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:24 PM   #203
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Whoa!! I stand corrected. You can get an electric fan that will generate more delta-P at the radiator than forward motion!
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Old 12-16-2014, 02:57 PM   #204
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I took my heater core out of the loop and tig welded a 1/8" thick plug the right dia. in the mixing maniflod outlet and installed a plug in the M-tuned housing where the heater hose was. I wanted to get rid of the pipe hanging off the exh. manifold and any heater hoses back by the turbo manifold.
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Old 12-16-2014, 03:58 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmann View Post
I took my heater core out of the loop and tig welded a 1/8" thick plug the right dia. in the mixing maniflod outlet and installed a plug in the M-tuned housing where the heater hose was. I wanted to get rid of the pipe hanging off the exh. manifold and any heater hoses back by the turbo manifold.
You don't find the lack of a defroster a problem in wet or cold conditions? Just bending the outlet pipe behind the exhaust manifold a bit and wrapping it well lets it survive turbo heat.
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:14 PM   #206
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Emillio I haven't had it out on the track on a cool day yet, but before I eliminated the pipe,[just capped it off] I did take it out for a drive on the road and with the windows out like on the track to keep my warm air from breathing getting to the windshield I had no issues with just turning the fan on with the controll on defrost. I thought with my helmet on and the shield almost closed it should be even better. Maybe I well find it doesn't work on the track, in that case I well replace the mixing manifold and reinstall the pipe with hose partially blocked.
I have run for several years with the pipe bent and hoses wrapped, just wanted to clean things up. Stay tuned, won't be able to find out until probably Jan. down at Thunderhill. Have you already tried this?
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:40 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmann View Post
I have run for several years with the pipe bent and hoses wrapped, just wanted to clean things up. Stay tuned, won't be able to find out until probably Jan. down at Thunderhill. Have you already tried this?
Tried which?

Wrapped, yes. No problems.
Deleted, yes. No problems other than fogging. Be sure to open a larger bypass hole in your tstat and keep revs down when cold if you delete the heater. Water needs somewhere to go before the tstat opens.
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:23 PM   #208
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Yeh I wrapped them too. Like I said I just wanted to clean it up, didn't think I really needed the heater hooked up, could be wrong. As for the water needing somewhere to go the water pump is not a sealed pump like a rubber impellered pump is [positive pressure] It should just sit there and churn the water until the stat opens. I never go out until up to temp anyway.
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:24 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmann View Post
Yeh I wrapped them too. Like I said I just wanted to clean it up, didn't think I really needed the heater hooked up, could be wrong. As for the water needing somewhere to go the water pump is not a sealed pump like a rubber impellered pump is [positive pressure] It should just sit there and churn the water until the stat opens. I never go out until up to temp anyway.
If you dont have water flowing near the thermostat you'll end up getting temp spikes when warming up from cold.
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:57 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
If you dont have water flowing near the thermostat you'll end up getting temp spikes when warming up from cold.
... And temperature distribution across the engine will be quite uneven during warmup as well.

Coolant needs to circulate all the time. Period. Even in vehicles which have electrically-driven water pumps as OEM, the pump is constantly in operation even when the engine is stone-cold.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:03 PM   #211
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Quote:
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... And temperature distribution across the engine will be quite uneven during warmup as well.
This would be my main concern. Plus, if you just spin a pump and let it cavitate without allowing water to flow . . . not so good for the pump.

Of course, if you're just idling in the paddock until warm, I can't see how you'll hurt anything. But for the rest of us, not a good plan to block off that bypass.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:18 PM   #212
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The thermostat has a air bleed hole at the top orientation, all be it small and I did enlarge it to a 1/4" so this is allowing circulation. I don't know how this compares to restricting the bypass side like was stated above, but that is also creating a potential cavatation situation. I did alot of research before doing this and the main reason for the bypass circuit on cars is so the heater well blow hot air sooner as the water isn't sent through the radiator until the thermostat opens up, other then that you could bypass the thermostat on the other side with a loop before and after in the upper rad. hose, since I don't plan on using the heater, I wasn't concerned. The main reason I did this wasn't that I couldn't protect the heater hoses as they were wrapped, but I run a 3" downpipe off of the turbo which sits on a log style manifold so everything is up high unlike a long tube manifold which I choes not to run for certain reasons and even though I have shieling and everything is ceramic coated this thing makes a bunch of heat at the whp and psi it runs at. I wanted to get rid of the heat soaking that I'm sure was taking place towards the end of sessions and make all the water go through the radiator as we don't have a system that shuts the bypass off and I didn't have the room for a bunch of valves and crap on the bypass system, nor did I want it. This is strictley a Track car and I would not suggest doing this to a DD, nor would I want to delete the heater to begin with, and I realize that not many are running this much power and heat on the track for 25 and 30 min. sessions, but for those that are with a similar setup it might help. My biggest concern is what Emillio brought up and that is if I can keep the windshield defrosted in the cool northwest spring mornings.

Last edited by jmann; 12-17-2014 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 12-19-2014, 05:35 AM   #213
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1/4" hole drilled in tstat for my setup that also has no tstat bypass route. That hole size seems to be working well.

-Ryan
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Old 12-19-2014, 07:14 PM   #214
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I just ordered one of these as the one that came with the M-tuned setup is 195*, fine for emissions but would like to be 180* at the stat. I like the high flow feature and the 3 bypass holes. Anybody have any experience of actually having used one?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/emp-301/overview/
John
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Old 12-19-2014, 07:18 PM   #215
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I'll bet it will work well. Please post your results with it.
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Old 12-19-2014, 08:05 PM   #216
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For sure.
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Old 12-19-2014, 09:21 PM   #217
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We need a new joe p. video with that thang.
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Old 05-09-2015, 02:11 PM   #218
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I've run an FMII with Hydra, for 12 - 15 track days / HSAX's a year for the past two seasons


No t-stat, spec Miata rad with a 3" angled spoiler under rad = no heat issues running 4 - 30 min sessions @ 90 deg
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Old 05-09-2015, 02:14 PM   #219
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It is a very poor choice to not use a thermostat.
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Old 05-09-2015, 02:29 PM   #220
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only a summer / track car


was told by a fast spec Miata builder that none of them run one
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