AbeFM

iTrader: (3)

You're worried about the exhaust pipe itself heating things? Yes, the exhaust gasses are pretty warm, but much of the engine bay is in the ~200-300 degree range, where 50 degrees will make a substantial difference. I certainly wouldn't wholly discount the ambient temps.

Good call on the diff cooling though.

I like the shapes of the ports in the undertray on the porsche...

1993ka24det

With the underbody we want the air under the car to move faster than the air around the car. I don't know how a much of NACA ducts disturb the air under the car (would need help, but i know plucas is busy) If any one has details on how much air is disturbed because of it. Or run a NACA duct right before the diff, then right after redeposit the air right after the diff. Or also will pulling the air from under the car up to the trani tunnel cause more downforce?

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

the whole point of NACA ducts is that they don't disturb airflow.

NASA are smart.

Mobius

iTrader: (2)

Yes. A naca duct feeding air to the diff shouldn't disturb the rest of the airflow on the underbody.

Feeding the air back to the outside world is an important point, too. The duct to return airflow after the diff should allow the air to accelerate as it rejoins the underbody airflow for minimal disturbance and maximal airflow over the diff.

At least this is what the book tells me.

AbeFM

iTrader: (3)

I like all the underbody stuff - er, for fuel economy (though I wouldn't mind better accel at low triple digits just for spirited street driving).... It doesn't show, less likely to get you nightsticked and your car taken away. I'd love to do a spoiler for the same reason, but somehow can't imagine that not labeling me as "ricer".

Really like the early post with the rails welded to the stock frame.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

My first flat underbody prototype that I ran at Auto Club Speedway deformed from exhaust heat, so depending on the material used, that heat can be a big factor. As far as components go, both the trans and diff will run substantially hotter in a sealed tunnel that is being superheated by the exhaust compared to having an open underbody with ambient air flowing along everything. The oils in both of those units don't like heat much. Those are the two biggest problem areas in my eyes.


A properly designed and constructed NACA duct creates almost zero disturbance to the airflow, that's why they are so bad-***.

-Ryan

AbeFM

iTrader: (3)

It *seems* to me that getting a few vents would fix up your problems... The issue is all the air feeding the tunnel in a sealed box is passing through the radiator. That's not a lot of area (so not a lot of velocity) and it's heated air.

Putting in a few ducts would probably help a ton. As would coolers.

But for pansies like me who just want good gas mileage with the occasional mountain switchback or stoplight race, I don't think I get that much heat in there.....

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

We're planning a flat bottom for the Catfish. The floor is flat until the rear diffuser, which should make some free downforce out back. The Thunderhill car had neither flat bottom or the diffuser--time constraints.

Brian Goodwin's race car is also shown from the back. He's got a full flat bottom on his car and he says he notices the downforce going over the start/finish rise at Laguna Seca. Our extends beyond the rear bumper, and has a gap between the bumper and the diffuser to prevent the rear fenders from catching air.

Canards molds are also being made. I'll be making some that fit stock Miatas as well.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

AbeFM - Between man hours and materials, I think it would take a long time for the additional gas mileage efficiency to pay off the cost of making a whole flat underbody... Not worth it IMO. Trying to get 5 more mph at the end of the front straight at a track? Worth it IMO.

cordycord - That looks like Tony's (AWR) shop. Is it?

-Ryan

plucas

How do you keep the flow attached on the diffuser with a 39 degree angle?

njn63

iTrader: (4)

+1

And that diffuser on the yellow car goes against the little I know about what works in aerodynamics. I've never seen a diffuser that is shaped like an S.

1993ka24det

The highest with out a wing or spoiler is 14 deg before separation. Now if you have a vary powerful wing or spoiler I could see it working more efficient.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

Well, a very gradual curve could probably maintain attached flow even if it ultimately reached an angle steeper than the generally accepted max of ~15*, but that's not gradual, it's pretty sudden. From what I understand too, that doesn't look like a great design.

Mobius

iTrader: (2)

Same. In for education if I am wrong but that diffuser looks stalled to me.

Twibs415

iTrader: (8)

iv been inspired by this thread. im gonna start mine this weekend. just the center section for now to match up with my flat front belly pan

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

Brian Goodwin swears by it (yellow car) and says he's had to re-program his brain post-flat bottom and diffuser, as the new cornering speeds he's using would spin him off the track pre-ground effects.

I'll tell you just how good/bad our diffuser works, once we get it on the track.

My diffuser s hinged and adjustable up and down, so you can consider the angle a "street configuration", which was the plan from the start. The angle is lowered via threaded rods. I'm as anxious as anyone else to test this aero.

The front splitter in the picture mates exactly with the outline of the body. I've made a larger version for track use, and i'll be trying front canards as well.

Can't wait to get it on the track.

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

That's Tony's shop, AWR. Brian's (Good-Win Racing) flat bottom was done there, including rear diffuser, and we developed ours with some of the input from that build.

ThePass

iTrader: (3)

Cool. I have to ask, is the Catfish something that Tony helped build/design with you guys? Because about a year ago he had a basically tube-frame chassis sitting around with miata seats/engine/trans/wheels/etc. and he was talking about how it was going to be a super lightweight version of the miata once it ever got finished, and when I saw the Catfish come out, it looked like a pretty similar chassis under the skin.

-Ryan

cordycord

iTrader: (2)

I was working on another car of mine at Tony's and watched a steady stream of Miata race cars roll through the shop. The simplicity of the Miata--while I was trying to fix one problem after another with mine--was the impetus to use it as the Catfish donor. The first donor was sourced through Tony ($800), and Tony helped set up the first frame for the El Toro testing you see on Youtube. Tony is a great source of knowledge for chassis and suspension setup.

AbeFM

iTrader: (3)

Heh. Goofy priorities. :-P

I'm not sure how much I would do - likely not all the diffuser bits, as they'd show from the outside anyway... And I need to do SOME radiator shrouding again. But a certain amount of very thin metal or metal/plastic could work out to have tangible benefits without quite as much work as it seems?