MINI 11" rotor instead of Corrado
10-08-2012, 04:09 PM
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 35
That is basically what I have on there now. 1.8 rotors, stainless lines and XP10/8 pads. I am running ATE blue fluid, but havn’t had any boiling issues. The factory calipers are clearly the issue. I was hoping that the pad tapering is less of an issue with 11” rotors, but that does not seem to be the case.
Reply
0
0
10-08-2012, 07:45 PM
#27
Former Vendor
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,099
We use the 11.75s on Rover, which makes ~130whp in PTE trim. The pads last forever and are cheap to replace when they do finally go. There's no "power level" at which Wilwoods don't make sense - if you have the wheel clearance and are having issues with factory calipers, just bite the bullet and get our kit.
Reply
0
0
10-08-2012, 08:41 PM
#28
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 35
I am sold on the Dynalites. What is the wear rate difference between the 11" setup and 11.75" setup. I just can't see it lasting twice as long.
Sav, do you know if anyone has gotten the 11.75" to fit under a NB 15" wheel without massive spacers? There is no way I can afford new wheels and tires on top of the 11.75" kit. This car is still driven on the street a lot and I have a second set of street tires that has to fit over the calipers as well, thats why my goal is to fit under the factory wheels.
What pads do you guys use on the street with the Dynalites? From what I could find it looks like Hawk HP+ is what most people use. If this is the case can I use HP+ and DTC-60 on the same rotors? How noisy are the HP+ pads, I had them on my Jetta years ago and they were noisy and dirty as hell, worked well though. I run HPS on the street now and swap rotors and pads to Carbotech for the track. I would love to only have to mess with the pads.
From what I was able to find it appears that the avaliable 11" kits either supply the Corrado rotors that are weak and have cooling issues or the 11" Willwoods with the really expensive friction rings. That is why I am interested in the Mini 11" rotors.
Sav, do you know if anyone has gotten the 11.75" to fit under a NB 15" wheel without massive spacers? There is no way I can afford new wheels and tires on top of the 11.75" kit. This car is still driven on the street a lot and I have a second set of street tires that has to fit over the calipers as well, thats why my goal is to fit under the factory wheels.
What pads do you guys use on the street with the Dynalites? From what I could find it looks like Hawk HP+ is what most people use. If this is the case can I use HP+ and DTC-60 on the same rotors? How noisy are the HP+ pads, I had them on my Jetta years ago and they were noisy and dirty as hell, worked well though. I run HPS on the street now and swap rotors and pads to Carbotech for the track. I would love to only have to mess with the pads.
From what I was able to find it appears that the avaliable 11" kits either supply the Corrado rotors that are weak and have cooling issues or the 11" Willwoods with the really expensive friction rings. That is why I am interested in the Mini 11" rotors.
Reply
0
0
10-08-2012, 10:31 PM
#29
HP+ are noisy in 1.8 size, I hated them. I dunno if its same for dynalites but I didn't care.
I run Porterfield R4S and they are good. Some dust, but zero noise. Stopped me from all my pulls so far.... For track I got DTC60 and plan on just swapping the pads and using same rotors for both. **** Carbotech and their magic pads.
There is no way in hell you can put stock wheels over 11.75" kit. I tried on Saturday. At least 10mm and morel likely a 15mm spacer.
I run Porterfield R4S and they are good. Some dust, but zero noise. Stopped me from all my pulls so far.... For track I got DTC60 and plan on just swapping the pads and using same rotors for both. **** Carbotech and their magic pads.
There is no way in hell you can put stock wheels over 11.75" kit. I tried on Saturday. At least 10mm and morel likely a 15mm spacer.
Reply
0
0
10-08-2012, 11:41 PM
#31
Over the summer 949 & Goodwin had the 11" wilwood kit for about $500. I don't know why you're so hell bent on trying to fit the 11" Mini rotor when a full 11" wilwood kit can be had for so little. I can't believe the savings is worth your time mucking around making brackets, lines and buying calipers to fit the mini rotors.
Reply
0
0
10-09-2012, 09:10 AM
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 35
Because the 11" friction rings are $81 where the 11" mini rotors are only $22, even less than the $31 for the 11.75" friction disks which seem to be the cheapest consumable option out there.
If the 11" Wilwood friction rings were closer to the $31 of the 11.75" rings, I wouldn't be messing around. Thats probably not true, I want to play with the Mill and allready have enough 3/4" and 1" plate to make all the brackets I need. Looking at the cost of the complete kits, I wouldn't be saving much, just the cost of the brackets and hubs. The prices Trackspeed and 949 offer have to be close to cost and would be hard beat.
If the 11" Wilwood friction rings were closer to the $31 of the 11.75" rings, I wouldn't be messing around. Thats probably not true, I want to play with the Mill and allready have enough 3/4" and 1" plate to make all the brackets I need. Looking at the cost of the complete kits, I wouldn't be saving much, just the cost of the brackets and hubs. The prices Trackspeed and 949 offer have to be close to cost and would be hard beat.
Last edited by Rallas; 10-09-2012 at 09:24 AM.
Reply
0
0
10-09-2012, 02:44 PM
#33
Sure the rotors are more expensive but how often do you think you will be changing them? You talk about stock wheels etc so that tells me you are not a hard core track junkie. If you go 5-10 times a year then rotor replacement costs are a non issue IMHO.
On the other hand if you are a 20-30+ times a year guy then 949 wheels with TSE brakes make the most sense. Not only will the rotors be cheaper you can take one step down in pad selection and have a dramatic increase in pad life. That's were the real savings is.
On the other hand if you are a 20-30+ times a year guy then 949 wheels with TSE brakes make the most sense. Not only will the rotors be cheaper you can take one step down in pad selection and have a dramatic increase in pad life. That's were the real savings is.
Last edited by k24madness; 10-09-2012 at 06:10 PM.
Reply
0
0
10-09-2012, 03:18 PM
#34
Bannisheded
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: woodstock
Posts: 14
Total Cats: -1
Because the 11" friction rings are $81 where the 11" mini rotors are only $22, even less than the $31 for the 11.75" friction disks which seem to be the cheapest consumable option out there.
If the 11" Wilwood friction rings were closer to the $31 of the 11.75" rings, I wouldn't be messing around. Thats probably not true, I want to play with the Mill and allready have enough 3/4" and 1" plate to make all the brackets I need. Looking at the cost of the complete kits, I wouldn't be saving much, just the cost of the brackets and hubs. The prices Trackspeed and 949 offer have to be close to cost and would be hard beat.
If the 11" Wilwood friction rings were closer to the $31 of the 11.75" rings, I wouldn't be messing around. Thats probably not true, I want to play with the Mill and allready have enough 3/4" and 1" plate to make all the brackets I need. Looking at the cost of the complete kits, I wouldn't be saving much, just the cost of the brackets and hubs. The prices Trackspeed and 949 offer have to be close to cost and would be hard beat.
the problem with everything available for a miata is everything is cheap. the dynalights is a draggy little caliper that quickly ruin rotors and pads.
Reply
0
0
10-09-2012, 03:59 PM
#35
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 35
That’s funny, 90% of the BBK out there are based on Dynalite calipers! They can't be that bad.
I must not be coming through clearly. I am shooting for the 4 piston Dynalite that 949, Trackspeed and Goodwin use, with same pads that make the 11.75 kits worth it in the long run.
The question that I still haven’t gotten answered is how big a benefit the 11” vs. 11.75” rotors would have with the same calipers and pads. Just the math on the available pad area, brake torque and thermal mass between a 11” and 11.75” rotor does not indicate to me that I am going to get any significant (read>15%) better wear rates or performance. Definitely not at my power levels.
Other than the Mini 11” not having the separate aluminum hub that saves weight and could potentially reduce the heat transferred to the hub bearings I don’t see what the big deal is with trying it out. Doing my research it is clear that everyone ran the crappy Corrado’s for quite some time, so why wouldn’t a better rotor design like the Mini be worth a try, especially at power levels below 200 whp. (I get that 11.75” can be used even on a tired NA 1.6, it just isn’t needed).
I do 2-3 track days a year at most, just track days, no competitive driving on r-comps or 3-400hp. Even with these few events having brake pads that cost ½ of what I was paying for carbotech’s makes sense. All I want is reliability and confidence. Every time I go for the middle pedal I want it to feel and respond the same. I believe that just swapping to Dynalites, even on 1.8 rotors would fix 95% of my problems. The 11” rotor is just because I can easily do it now and appears to fit under my wheels. I even looked at the 11.5” Mini Turbo rotor, but it won’t fit either. Also I can get the Mini rotors at most parts stores without having to special order them.
Does anyone have the Wilwood Hub # for the 11.75” kit?
I must not be coming through clearly. I am shooting for the 4 piston Dynalite that 949, Trackspeed and Goodwin use, with same pads that make the 11.75 kits worth it in the long run.
The question that I still haven’t gotten answered is how big a benefit the 11” vs. 11.75” rotors would have with the same calipers and pads. Just the math on the available pad area, brake torque and thermal mass between a 11” and 11.75” rotor does not indicate to me that I am going to get any significant (read>15%) better wear rates or performance. Definitely not at my power levels.
Other than the Mini 11” not having the separate aluminum hub that saves weight and could potentially reduce the heat transferred to the hub bearings I don’t see what the big deal is with trying it out. Doing my research it is clear that everyone ran the crappy Corrado’s for quite some time, so why wouldn’t a better rotor design like the Mini be worth a try, especially at power levels below 200 whp. (I get that 11.75” can be used even on a tired NA 1.6, it just isn’t needed).
I do 2-3 track days a year at most, just track days, no competitive driving on r-comps or 3-400hp. Even with these few events having brake pads that cost ½ of what I was paying for carbotech’s makes sense. All I want is reliability and confidence. Every time I go for the middle pedal I want it to feel and respond the same. I believe that just swapping to Dynalites, even on 1.8 rotors would fix 95% of my problems. The 11” rotor is just because I can easily do it now and appears to fit under my wheels. I even looked at the 11.5” Mini Turbo rotor, but it won’t fit either. Also I can get the Mini rotors at most parts stores without having to special order them.
Does anyone have the Wilwood Hub # for the 11.75” kit?
Reply
0
0
10-09-2012, 04:49 PM
#36
Elite Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Very NorCal
Posts: 10,441
Total Cats: 1,899
Sub'd for results.
Relte: I know exactly where you are coming from with this as my car is "dual purpose" as well. I run 15x8 6ULs and 205 NT-01s for track days, but I have 195/50-15 sDrives on stock NB 15's for DD tires. Both myself and a friend tapered the hell out of our stock sized pads on both of our cars the last time we were out, so its probably time for an upgrade.
Guys: stop thinking about this just as consumables for a moment.
If I spring for the $900 TSE 11.75s, I'm going to need another $500 set of rims and another $500 worth of tires. That's not a small amount of cash, and significantly more than I *need* right now. I'd love to be a member of the 11.75 TSE Master Race but I don't do enough track days to justify another $1900 worth of additional rim/tire/brake upgrades.
TSE has the 4 pot forged Dynalite 120-6806 calipers listed at $129 each. Add that to $50 worth of Mini rotors, $100 worth of stainless lines from 949 and $70 worth of DTC-60s and you start to see why this has merit. It's $478, it should fit under a factory 15" wheel, the rotors are stupid cheap, lightweight (compared to the Corrados I'm sure) and readily available, and it eliminates the problematic factory caliper while giving you access to all the compounds available for the Dynalite series of calipers. (This obviously does not include the mounting brackets or spacer rings, as Relte can DIY) Add a set of TSE ducts and I bet these things would last a long, long time.
I'd love to see something come out of this. If you are going to make one set, it's pretty easy to make 2. Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist.
Relte: I know exactly where you are coming from with this as my car is "dual purpose" as well. I run 15x8 6ULs and 205 NT-01s for track days, but I have 195/50-15 sDrives on stock NB 15's for DD tires. Both myself and a friend tapered the hell out of our stock sized pads on both of our cars the last time we were out, so its probably time for an upgrade.
Guys: stop thinking about this just as consumables for a moment.
If I spring for the $900 TSE 11.75s, I'm going to need another $500 set of rims and another $500 worth of tires. That's not a small amount of cash, and significantly more than I *need* right now. I'd love to be a member of the 11.75 TSE Master Race but I don't do enough track days to justify another $1900 worth of additional rim/tire/brake upgrades.
TSE has the 4 pot forged Dynalite 120-6806 calipers listed at $129 each. Add that to $50 worth of Mini rotors, $100 worth of stainless lines from 949 and $70 worth of DTC-60s and you start to see why this has merit. It's $478, it should fit under a factory 15" wheel, the rotors are stupid cheap, lightweight (compared to the Corrados I'm sure) and readily available, and it eliminates the problematic factory caliper while giving you access to all the compounds available for the Dynalite series of calipers. (This obviously does not include the mounting brackets or spacer rings, as Relte can DIY) Add a set of TSE ducts and I bet these things would last a long, long time.
I'd love to see something come out of this. If you are going to make one set, it's pretty easy to make 2. Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist.
Last edited by EO2K; 10-09-2012 at 05:14 PM. Reason: math is hard
Reply
0
0
10-09-2012, 05:04 PM
#38
Bannisheded
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: woodstock
Posts: 14
Total Cats: -1
That’s funny, 90% of the BBK out there are based on Dynalite calipers! They can't be that bad.
I must not be coming through clearly. I am shooting for the 4 piston Dynalite that 949, Trackspeed and Goodwin use, with same pads that make the 11.75 kits worth it in the long run.
The question that I still haven’t gotten answered is how big a benefit the 11” vs. 11.75” rotors would have with the same calipers and pads. Just the math on the available pad area, brake torque and thermal mass between a 11” and 11.75” rotor does not indicate to me that I am going to get any significant (read>15%) better wear rates or performance. Definitely not at my power levels.
Other than the Mini 11” not having the separate aluminum hub that saves weight and could potentially reduce the heat transferred to the hub bearings I don’t see what the big deal is with trying it out. Doing my research it is clear that everyone ran the crappy Corrado’s for quite some time, so why wouldn’t a better rotor design like the Mini be worth a try, especially at power levels below 200 whp. (I get that 11.75” can be used even on a tired NA 1.6, it just isn’t needed).
I do 2-3 track days a year at most, just track days, no competitive driving on r-comps or 3-400hp. Even with these few events having brake pads that cost ½ of what I was paying for carbotech’s makes sense. All I want is reliability and confidence. Every time I go for the middle pedal I want it to feel and respond the same. I believe that just swapping to Dynalites, even on 1.8 rotors would fix 95% of my problems. The 11” rotor is just because I can easily do it now and appears to fit under my wheels. I even looked at the 11.5” Mini Turbo rotor, but it won’t fit either. Also I can get the Mini rotors at most parts stores without having to special order them.
Does anyone have the Wilwood Hub # for the 11.75” kit?
I must not be coming through clearly. I am shooting for the 4 piston Dynalite that 949, Trackspeed and Goodwin use, with same pads that make the 11.75 kits worth it in the long run.
The question that I still haven’t gotten answered is how big a benefit the 11” vs. 11.75” rotors would have with the same calipers and pads. Just the math on the available pad area, brake torque and thermal mass between a 11” and 11.75” rotor does not indicate to me that I am going to get any significant (read>15%) better wear rates or performance. Definitely not at my power levels.
Other than the Mini 11” not having the separate aluminum hub that saves weight and could potentially reduce the heat transferred to the hub bearings I don’t see what the big deal is with trying it out. Doing my research it is clear that everyone ran the crappy Corrado’s for quite some time, so why wouldn’t a better rotor design like the Mini be worth a try, especially at power levels below 200 whp. (I get that 11.75” can be used even on a tired NA 1.6, it just isn’t needed).
I do 2-3 track days a year at most, just track days, no competitive driving on r-comps or 3-400hp. Even with these few events having brake pads that cost ½ of what I was paying for carbotech’s makes sense. All I want is reliability and confidence. Every time I go for the middle pedal I want it to feel and respond the same. I believe that just swapping to Dynalites, even on 1.8 rotors would fix 95% of my problems. The 11” rotor is just because I can easily do it now and appears to fit under my wheels. I even looked at the 11.5” Mini Turbo rotor, but it won’t fit either. Also I can get the Mini rotors at most parts stores without having to special order them.
Does anyone have the Wilwood Hub # for the 11.75” kit?
as far as what is better rotor wise. there are 3 ways of increasing tq in a braking set up. hydraulic advantage (changing caliper piston size/changing master cylinder), increasing mu (compound), or increasing rotor diameter. increasing your rotor to a 11.75 is going to dissipate more heat then an 11" rotor. lowering your rotor's thermal operating temp is going to extend it's life, reduce coning, and in crease efficiency. may teams race teams invest tons of money in just brake cooling. keeping those operating temps down is very important.
now the question is. are you over working the 11" rotors and should you increase. i have 400 ish whp. i have gotten my little dba rotors to their thermal limits. i've gotten them so hot they became unstable. i needed to upgrade to a 11.75" rotor.
i'm not talking **** on wilwood btw. a super-light is a far superior caliper to a dynalight. the problem with dynalights is the 3 piece design. The deciding factor that makes a quality caliper is it's rigidity, and it's just not there with the dynalights design. Every reputable manufacture of brakes has eater a 2 piece or a mono-block caliper.
Last edited by be good; 10-09-2012 at 05:19 PM.
Reply
0
0
10-09-2012, 05:17 PM
#39
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Lexington SC
Posts: 1,176
Total Cats: 35
Thanks EO2k! Someone gets it. I am not trying to re-invent the wheel. TSE and 949 have the awesomest BBK I would ever want, just doesn’t work for me and I cannot afford the cost of huge wheels and tires. I am fully aware of my budget limitations which are part of the reason why I have not stuck the turbo on the car yet. If you want to play with the big boys you need the big wallet too, that's why I am still playing little leauge.
If I can pull it off it would make a great Dual purpose setup with 90% of the performance, reliability and wear rates of the big boys.
I am about to start a 6 week night shift period and will be ordering some rotors and calipers to stick on my wheel/hub mockup. Hopefully I can get something figuired out soon.
If I can pull it off it would make a great Dual purpose setup with 90% of the performance, reliability and wear rates of the big boys.
I am about to start a 6 week night shift period and will be ordering some rotors and calipers to stick on my wheel/hub mockup. Hopefully I can get something figuired out soon.
Reply
0
0
