New Wing to Test
11-22-2012, 12:19 AM
#41
Late to the party here, but I just found this thread. I'm running a COT wing as well. Pooface and I have had a few conversations via PM on another forum, but have come up with some pretty similar solutions to mounting. Here's mine, made at home with hand tools.
I put rivnuts inside the trunk lip so it's easy to R&R. I left the mounts solid to cut down on drag. The tethers are really easy to remove, they just pull out when you remove the anchor. Interestingly, they actually cross inside the wing so the left anchor is attached to the right end plate.
I've had a chance to do one track test with it. Our local track usually has a peak speed of just over 70 mph with an average of 50, so it's not a high speed track. Still, that peak speed takes place on a long sweeper and I'm very much limited by grip instead of power. Short version: 2 seconds per lap and a gain of nearly 5 mph in the sweeper. A very definite change from oversteer to understeer in the sweeper, even with a 3" splitter.
Since the angle is adjusted by moving the front mounting bolt to different holes, it's completely repeatable. So I've just been monitoring the holes used, as it's a lot quicker and easier than ensuring I'm on a level surface and measuring with a level. IIRC, each hole is good for about 1/4 degree, so if I change the rake of the car I can just offset my notes about holes by the same amount. With a 1 degree nose-down change, I'd just change from hole B2 to B3 for the same wing angle.
If there's interest out there, I could probably get Mark at Paco Motorsports to duplicate these. Even better, I could get him to angle the bent section differently so you can open a normal trunk at least partway.
I put rivnuts inside the trunk lip so it's easy to R&R. I left the mounts solid to cut down on drag. The tethers are really easy to remove, they just pull out when you remove the anchor. Interestingly, they actually cross inside the wing so the left anchor is attached to the right end plate.
I've had a chance to do one track test with it. Our local track usually has a peak speed of just over 70 mph with an average of 50, so it's not a high speed track. Still, that peak speed takes place on a long sweeper and I'm very much limited by grip instead of power. Short version: 2 seconds per lap and a gain of nearly 5 mph in the sweeper. A very definite change from oversteer to understeer in the sweeper, even with a 3" splitter.
Since the angle is adjusted by moving the front mounting bolt to different holes, it's completely repeatable. So I've just been monitoring the holes used, as it's a lot quicker and easier than ensuring I'm on a level surface and measuring with a level. IIRC, each hole is good for about 1/4 degree, so if I change the rake of the car I can just offset my notes about holes by the same amount. With a 1 degree nose-down change, I'd just change from hole B2 to B3 for the same wing angle.
If there's interest out there, I could probably get Mark at Paco Motorsports to duplicate these. Even better, I could get him to angle the bent section differently so you can open a normal trunk at least partway.
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11-25-2012, 03:21 PM
#48
So I know not to buy a "replica" or "show car" wing, but it should be ok
To buy one labeled "practice", correct?
Any one found good deals on these?
You're gonna spend at least $500 on eBay w/shipping.
At that price how much more efficient are they over the super miata/APR Frp wing?
I'm guessing the weight savings is decent.
To buy one labeled "practice", correct?
Any one found good deals on these?
You're gonna spend at least $500 on eBay w/shipping.
At that price how much more efficient are they over the super miata/APR Frp wing?
I'm guessing the weight savings is decent.
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11-25-2012, 04:15 PM
#49
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I scored mine for $400 including shipping.
It's the legit version - Carbon fiber gurney flap, etc. This one was actually used at the 2010 Daytona race. I don't know if the "practice"one is the same. From what I have read, the ones without gurney flaps should be avoided - those are the show ones. The gurney is actually a carbon fiber L shape that slides into a notch in the wing - so there aren't any fasteners holding it to the wing and disrupting the air. It's pretty trick. I can see why the show wings would have left that feature out to make construction of the airfoil itself cheaper.
Building my own struts and new endplates will cost me less than $100. So total cost still puts me well below even the cost of the non-carbon Supermiata wing. ($599)
I like making my own stuff, so this is right up my alley instead of buying a bolt-on solution. For someone who isn't into fabricating stuff or who doesn't have the proper tools, it's probably worth saving the time to just spend the extra money and get a wing that comes ready to bolt to a miata.
In terms of effectiveness compared to other wings, it may be hard to find answers - most people get one wing and stick with it, they don't buy a few and try them all out back to back. One benefit of the Supermiata wing is the 3-D shape which lends itself to working better at lower heights on the trunk in relation to the roof. A 2-D airfoil like this needs to be properly mounted high up. I can say though that there are definitely good things about the design of this wing. I guess there should be since it's a $3,000+ wing
-Ryan
It's the legit version - Carbon fiber gurney flap, etc. This one was actually used at the 2010 Daytona race. I don't know if the "practice"one is the same. From what I have read, the ones without gurney flaps should be avoided - those are the show ones. The gurney is actually a carbon fiber L shape that slides into a notch in the wing - so there aren't any fasteners holding it to the wing and disrupting the air. It's pretty trick. I can see why the show wings would have left that feature out to make construction of the airfoil itself cheaper.
Building my own struts and new endplates will cost me less than $100. So total cost still puts me well below even the cost of the non-carbon Supermiata wing. ($599)
I like making my own stuff, so this is right up my alley instead of buying a bolt-on solution. For someone who isn't into fabricating stuff or who doesn't have the proper tools, it's probably worth saving the time to just spend the extra money and get a wing that comes ready to bolt to a miata.
In terms of effectiveness compared to other wings, it may be hard to find answers - most people get one wing and stick with it, they don't buy a few and try them all out back to back. One benefit of the Supermiata wing is the 3-D shape which lends itself to working better at lower heights on the trunk in relation to the roof. A 2-D airfoil like this needs to be properly mounted high up. I can say though that there are definitely good things about the design of this wing. I guess there should be since it's a $3,000+ wing
-Ryan
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11-26-2012, 10:44 AM
#54
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http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/u...il-Data-V2.pdf
I am glad you asked this question because the above database has been offline for some time now...glad to see it's back.
While searching, I did find this interesting paper which has some discussion about how gurney flaps work:
http://oa.upm.es/7427/1/PFC_SARA_BRUSCOLI.pdf
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11-26-2012, 11:40 AM
#55
I don't see anything wrong with using a practice wing. If they've got tethers, they're the real thing regardless of provenance. I think there's a sticker on the wing as well showing that it's race-legal. Great deal, Ryan. Does your source have more?
About the Gurney flaps (aka wickerbills) on the COT wing - you can use standard aluminum angle. I forget what size, but I had one that slipped right in. My wing came with the flap removed.
Some of the end plates are actually aerofoil shaped. Obviously not the best choice for someone who wants to turn right. It wouldn't be hard to build your own flat end plates although you'll give up about two inches of span that way. One interesting note on mine was this little wickerbill on one end plate.
About the Gurney flaps (aka wickerbills) on the COT wing - you can use standard aluminum angle. I forget what size, but I had one that slipped right in. My wing came with the flap removed.
Some of the end plates are actually aerofoil shaped. Obviously not the best choice for someone who wants to turn right. It wouldn't be hard to build your own flat end plates although you'll give up about two inches of span that way. One interesting note on mine was this little wickerbill on one end plate.
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11-26-2012, 05:31 PM
#59
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With all this talk of the new wings being developed and the COTA wing being better (more downforce, less drag) etc.
Is the 3d wing currently available a bad wing?
Or a good wing but better available ?
I thought it was "optimised" for the miata...?
Is the 3d wing currently available a bad wing?
Or a good wing but better available ?
I thought it was "optimised" for the miata...?
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11-26-2012, 07:04 PM
#60
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