Setting up suspension
06-12-2011, 05:34 PM
#1
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Setting up suspension
As discussed in the suspension forum, my car sits higher on one side than the other:
Would you guys typically dial it in so it sits even, or just set both shock collar adjustments to be the same?
At the moment the pinch weld measurements are:
I'm going to jack it up a bit so it sits ~6mm higher at the rear as suggested by 949 Racing.
BTW I put a shock collar on your girlfriend.
Cheers
Hi,
I have my TEIN Super Streets set right at the bottom at the front, and 20mm up from the bottom on the rears. These are Japanese Super Streets so I have heard the springs are 50mm longer than the US ones, but it doesn't seem crazy low anyway.
My problem is that, although both left and right fronts are wound down as low as they can go, the car seems to be 10mm higher on the right than the left. The same applies on the rear but it isn't as extreme (7mm).
Do you know WTF could be causing this?
Cheers
I have my TEIN Super Streets set right at the bottom at the front, and 20mm up from the bottom on the rears. These are Japanese Super Streets so I have heard the springs are 50mm longer than the US ones, but it doesn't seem crazy low anyway.
My problem is that, although both left and right fronts are wound down as low as they can go, the car seems to be 10mm higher on the right than the left. The same applies on the rear but it isn't as extreme (7mm).
Do you know WTF could be causing this?
Cheers
At the moment the pinch weld measurements are:
- FL 128mm
- FR 118mm
- RL 128mm
- RR 121mm
I'm going to jack it up a bit so it sits ~6mm higher at the rear as suggested by 949 Racing.
BTW I put a shock collar on your girlfriend.
Cheers
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06-12-2011, 06:10 PM
#2
Dial it in at the pinch welds. Not the amount of thread left on the collar.
If you autox/track your car but still drive on the street I suggest a 4.5'' F/4.75'' R measurement from the most forward and most rearward parts of the pinch welds before they start curving up. I am running as low as 3.75''/4'' with my 13's on but that's a different case.
In MM it would equate to 114mm front/ 120.4mm rear.
Just FYI, my car is even all around but the collars are all a little off.
If you autox/track your car but still drive on the street I suggest a 4.5'' F/4.75'' R measurement from the most forward and most rearward parts of the pinch welds before they start curving up. I am running as low as 3.75''/4'' with my 13's on but that's a different case.
In MM it would equate to 114mm front/ 120.4mm rear.
Just FYI, my car is even all around but the collars are all a little off.
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06-12-2011, 06:56 PM
#3
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If one's pinch welds were pretty much FUBAR'd, is there another reliable point to measure corner heights? I know the fender lips are not reliable enough, especially since I have flares on the rear, and my frame rails are ground down from speed bumps and therefore not even either....
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08-30-2011, 02:49 PM
#9
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We played with the shock stiffness last event and found with all 4 set to the 'middle of the road' setting the car would get crazy oversteer on rebound. After dialling up the rear shocks a bit (very minor adjustment) the car seemed to have shittier turn in but it was more stable and faster.
Is this kind of compromise fairly typical?
The suspension is just left over from my street car - Tein SS with 6/5kg springs. I also have MSM/SE swaybars and an MSM/SE tower brace.
Is this kind of compromise fairly typical?
The suspension is just left over from my street car - Tein SS with 6/5kg springs. I also have MSM/SE swaybars and an MSM/SE tower brace.
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08-31-2011, 01:27 AM
#10
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Oversteer is typical with 6/5 springs and stock sways, yes.
You don't need shock adjustments, you need different front and/or rear springs, a much larger front sway, and at least 6mm of rake in the car.
You don't need shock adjustments, you need different front and/or rear springs, a much larger front sway, and at least 6mm of rake in the car.
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09-11-2011, 08:53 PM
#13
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Well after reading your posts I think you may be overlooking a problem. You mentioned turning the collors all the way to the lowest setting, you also mentioned crazy over steer.
With these two statements I would guess that you are on your bump stops.
Start by raising the coils up two turns at a time untill you dont hit the stops on hard corners or bumps. Then get it on the flattest and most level peice of pavement you can find with scales under each wheel.
Look at the weights of each wheel and adjust the coils until the fronts weights are equal side to side and the rears are equal side to side. While doing this you will notice that a adjustment on one corner will affect the weight on the other three corners, pay attention to this. Dont worry if they are a few pounds off they will be when you do the next step. Once close add the opposite corners diagnolly and adjust to try to acheive equal cross weight. You can do this with you in the car or you and your navigator.
Once the corner weights are set drive it and put it back on the scales to check that the weights have not changed. Then get an alignment from someone that will set it to your specs. (Settings can be found on this site or over at Mnet) Dont use the quickie $75 alignment shops, they usually check your settings and if they are in a range considered acceptable they wont make a change.
Then adjust your sways to help with over or understeer.
Once this is done start adjusting the shocks, start with the compression then do the rebound.
From here if you need to adjust the ride height you can turn the coils equally and the corner weight will stay close to the original weight but you will have to change your alignment.
Good luck
Greg
With these two statements I would guess that you are on your bump stops.
Start by raising the coils up two turns at a time untill you dont hit the stops on hard corners or bumps. Then get it on the flattest and most level peice of pavement you can find with scales under each wheel.
Look at the weights of each wheel and adjust the coils until the fronts weights are equal side to side and the rears are equal side to side. While doing this you will notice that a adjustment on one corner will affect the weight on the other three corners, pay attention to this. Dont worry if they are a few pounds off they will be when you do the next step. Once close add the opposite corners diagnolly and adjust to try to acheive equal cross weight. You can do this with you in the car or you and your navigator.
Once the corner weights are set drive it and put it back on the scales to check that the weights have not changed. Then get an alignment from someone that will set it to your specs. (Settings can be found on this site or over at Mnet) Dont use the quickie $75 alignment shops, they usually check your settings and if they are in a range considered acceptable they wont make a change.
Then adjust your sways to help with over or understeer.
Once this is done start adjusting the shocks, start with the compression then do the rebound.
From here if you need to adjust the ride height you can turn the coils equally and the corner weight will stay close to the original weight but you will have to change your alignment.
Good luck
Greg
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09-11-2011, 11:59 PM
#14
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Then get it on the flattest and most level peice of pavement you can find with scales under each wheel.
Dont use the quickie $75 alignment shops, they usually check your settings and if they are in a range considered acceptable they wont make a change.
If you give your race car to the tech and sit in the lobby reading a magazine, you can expect a shitty alignment, but with a little oversight and $10 in the right shirt pocket, anybody with a laser alignment machine and a few box wrenches can produce a perfect alignment in about 45 minutes.
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09-12-2011, 02:06 AM
#16
i made a deal with the alignment shop i go to. told him i might be getting as many as 4-5 aligments per year and i would send all of our car club members to him from now on. also that i would give him my alignment #'s and be sitting in the car while it was being done. i paid $89 first alignment and usually pay about $60 including said tip now. the mechanic even lowers the car a little when it's done so i can see the screen to see if it's okay. kinda like when the barber turns you around so you can look inthe mirror after a haircut. lol... like i've said before, you have to make connections with people to get **** done right and for a fair price if you can't do it yourself.
as far as the op saying he dial'd upped the rear and it helped? shouldn't have unless they were underdamped to begin with. Sav is right about the spring rates, they suck, they are too close together. in the mean time to help counter that oversteer, he should stiffen the front to a little below full stiff in the front and remove the rear sway bar. also, there is no such thing as msm/se sway bars. if they are not red, they aren't msm. if they aren't msm they're not really worth having. big RB (hollow) frt. sway with (real) msm rear sway is a proven set up.
one last thing, aren't the tein independent height/preload adjustable? if so, that could explain why the car doesn't seem low and is higher on one side, etc..
as far as the op saying he dial'd upped the rear and it helped? shouldn't have unless they were underdamped to begin with. Sav is right about the spring rates, they suck, they are too close together. in the mean time to help counter that oversteer, he should stiffen the front to a little below full stiff in the front and remove the rear sway bar. also, there is no such thing as msm/se sway bars. if they are not red, they aren't msm. if they aren't msm they're not really worth having. big RB (hollow) frt. sway with (real) msm rear sway is a proven set up.
one last thing, aren't the tein independent height/preload adjustable? if so, that could explain why the car doesn't seem low and is higher on one side, etc..
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09-12-2011, 03:30 PM
#18
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If they are red than they should be decent non marked eibach sways with poly mounts. As said above pull that rear sway for now and start the process of getting the correct f/r bias of rates on the car.
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