Rear wing/spoiler
04-25-2010, 11:09 AM
#1
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Rear wing/spoiler
I am going to be setting up a wing on my car and was wondering if anyone actually knows how much down force that they are actually using at given speeds? for instance 60 lbs @ 80mph, 110 lbs @ 130mph ect. I know that different wings provide different amounts of force at different angles. I would like to make one that would be optimal for us track guys. Thanks
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04-25-2010, 05:38 PM
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I want to see what the average down forced used is on one of our cars, Im toying with a few different shapes and need to choose the one that will best suit a miata for the track.
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04-25-2010, 08:32 PM
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If you change the angle of the wing from track to track, or the altitude or the barometric pressure or the temperature, what Im looking for is and average. I saw almost everyone at the last miata challenge in the unlimited group running a APR wing, they where all mounted about the same, some had the ends modified some not. Im just looking for a starting point for my project.
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04-25-2010, 09:52 PM
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No penguin just want to make an affordable wing for all. for example if you had a air foil with a 4' span and a 1' chord w/ a thick-%crd of 14 and no camber at 0 deg you would have no lift or down force. But if you introduced a -10 angle with out changing any of the other variables you would end up with 133 lbs of down force at 100mph. Since all of the variables are changeable and this model is based on a symmetrical air foil you can calculate the type of air foil you would need for a given down force at a given speed or you can calculate the down force you should have from an existing air foil.
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04-26-2010, 11:57 AM
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You can get the data for an existing (and popular) wing from the APR Performance site.
I have the GTC-200. It is mounted at 9.3 degrees relative to horizontal, but the downwash from the hard top increases the AOA to about 15 degrees. From that, and the wing data, you should be able to figure out what I am getting vs. speed. My setup is fairly typical.
I have the GTC-200. It is mounted at 9.3 degrees relative to horizontal, but the downwash from the hard top increases the AOA to about 15 degrees. From that, and the wing data, you should be able to figure out what I am getting vs. speed. My setup is fairly typical.
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04-26-2010, 12:46 PM
#9
on my car, rear wing is limited by front downforce. there is no use for 1,000LB down force if the front is only making 200LB down force at same speed.
as radical as my front splitters are, I find GTC200 is at the limit of rear down force. I cranked up AoA all the way to 10 degree vs. horizontal. but I also have Gurney flap and fast back. that was barely enough, rear would still want to step out at certain corners.
I ran GTC300 at MRLS. ran it at zero AoA, car was neutral.
but for most who don't have the big front splitter, GTC200 is a much better match. don't forget APR numbers are in newton.
as radical as my front splitters are, I find GTC200 is at the limit of rear down force. I cranked up AoA all the way to 10 degree vs. horizontal. but I also have Gurney flap and fast back. that was barely enough, rear would still want to step out at certain corners.
I ran GTC300 at MRLS. ran it at zero AoA, car was neutral.
but for most who don't have the big front splitter, GTC200 is a much better match. don't forget APR numbers are in newton.
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04-26-2010, 08:40 PM
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cool I think I found what I am looking for on their web site, thanks for the heads up on their units of measurement, that would have thrown me for a loop for sure.
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04-27-2010, 02:17 PM
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on my car, rear wing is limited by front downforce. there is no use for 1,000LB down force if the front is only making 200LB down force at same speed.
as radical as my front splitters are, I find GTC200 is at the limit of rear down force. I cranked up AoA all the way to 10 degree vs. horizontal. but I also have Gurney flap and fast back. that was barely enough, rear would still want to step out at certain corners.
I ran GTC300 at MRLS. ran it at zero AoA, car was neutral.
but for most who don't have the big front splitter, GTC200 is a much better match. don't forget APR numbers are in newton.
as radical as my front splitters are, I find GTC200 is at the limit of rear down force. I cranked up AoA all the way to 10 degree vs. horizontal. but I also have Gurney flap and fast back. that was barely enough, rear would still want to step out at certain corners.
I ran GTC300 at MRLS. ran it at zero AoA, car was neutral.
but for most who don't have the big front splitter, GTC200 is a much better match. don't forget APR numbers are in newton.
It was interesting that after driving Emilios 949 rental and comparing back to back with my car even with twice the power and my car feeling less hooked up overall in the corners with a less responsive turn in I could much more liberally apply power early coming off the corners without the rear end wanting to step out. Same spring rates 700/400 probably similar alignment but I did have ISC swaybars set Full stiff in the front and full soft in the rear and the 949 rental had no real aero.
The GTC 300 makes more down force at 0 AOA than the GTC 200 will make at any angle of attack a bit more drag too. It seems like further Aero work for me would be some underbody panneling and diffuser which would probably be biased toward even more rear downforce. Im thinking it would be very difficult for me to optimize the aero and suspension with the GTC 300 wing from where I'm at now.
For the lower speed autocross stuff I have been just cranking it to 15 deg.
Bob
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08-05-2010, 09:42 PM
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Bringing up a dead thread, but better than starting a new one as this is relative to the topic.
Heading to Road Atlanta this weekend for some hot track time. Last time I went I just had my GTC200 wing with no splitter. I didn't have an angle finder but made sure it was negative... well it was so much that half way down the back straight I could feel the *** hunker down and acted more like a parachute and the best top speed I saw was 128mph. I know having a wing is a compromise between cornering speed and straight-line speed, but I'd rather much have the corning speed than trying to stay with the GT2s and Vettes in the straights. Anyway, I also have a gurney flap and can't find if the angle is to be set at wing center from front to top of flap or base of flap... see pics below. ALSO, looking at my DIY splitter what angle on the wing do you guys think is a good starting point? The splitter comes out 4"... god I'm such a retard at this stuff... same with suspension setup....
Heading to Road Atlanta this weekend for some hot track time. Last time I went I just had my GTC200 wing with no splitter. I didn't have an angle finder but made sure it was negative... well it was so much that half way down the back straight I could feel the *** hunker down and acted more like a parachute and the best top speed I saw was 128mph. I know having a wing is a compromise between cornering speed and straight-line speed, but I'd rather much have the corning speed than trying to stay with the GT2s and Vettes in the straights. Anyway, I also have a gurney flap and can't find if the angle is to be set at wing center from front to top of flap or base of flap... see pics below. ALSO, looking at my DIY splitter what angle on the wing do you guys think is a good starting point? The splitter comes out 4"... god I'm such a retard at this stuff... same with suspension setup....
Last edited by GeneSplicer; 08-20-2010 at 03:47 PM.
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08-20-2010, 03:28 PM
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Either way of measuring it is fine. The only reason for measuring it is to get a starting point, or return to some setting that worked. Without a lot of smoke or tuft studies, you wouldn't know what the angle of the incoming air is anyway.
The reference AOA line for the data provided by APR is across the upper surface, probably because it is easy to measure. They sell a cheap level and embossed APR bar to bridge across the high points.
The Gurney flap will probably increase the effective AOA about 1 degree, based on what they do to other high-lift airfoils. I measure from the front of the wing to the Gurney bond surface (like the 2.4 degree example above).
The reference AOA line for the data provided by APR is across the upper surface, probably because it is easy to measure. They sell a cheap level and embossed APR bar to bridge across the high points.
The Gurney flap will probably increase the effective AOA about 1 degree, based on what they do to other high-lift airfoils. I measure from the front of the wing to the Gurney bond surface (like the 2.4 degree example above).
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08-22-2010, 01:44 PM
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AWR has a diffuser, wing and splitter you might like
AWR makes parts for Mazda Motorsports, include the MX-5 Cup cages. These are prototypes for the Super Spec Miata Series being contemplated by MM now. I believe AWR is looking for a few racers to test these items, so you might be able to actually get them now.
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