Tapered Roller Bearing Hubs--IT'S HAPPENING - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-21-2016, 03:17 PM   #61
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Tapered Roller Bearing Hubs--IT'S HAPPENING-80-undefined_0ad6e320a004988d8dbfa4a57ed609a6d83eb431.png  
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Old 03-21-2016, 07:11 PM   #62
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I have had exactly the opposite experiences with all the cars we've had, many many trouble free miles.
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Old 03-21-2016, 08:33 PM   #63
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My Mazda's that had tapered roller bearings **** there wheel bearings out on a regular basis on street driven cars on all season tires. My GM SUV gets new wheel bearings every time I change rotors they also are ****.

They were not cartridge type bearings however. Maybe tighter tolerances would help and better adjustment of cartridge type would help allot.
Were those cars with rollers adjustable? There's basically 3 ways to do a pair bearing combo be it tapered roller or angular contact ball.

Trailer level, two bearings opposed with plenty of clearance between the inner races, castle nut and cotter pin. You tighten the nut until the wheel doesnt turn easy and then back it off till you can cotter pin the castle nut. So your preload is set in really really rough increments which is fine on non-steering minimal side load wheel bearings.

Modern OEM, set preload, the inner bearing races are just set so that the two touch and you can crank the spindle nut until you shear the spindle off and it wont change the bearing preload. These are nice when you have good tolerances on all the bits involved or if the hub comes as a unit with the bearings so they can be assembled and together with the proper clearance. YOU"RE COMPLETELY AT THE MERCY OF CHINA TO SET THIS CORRECTLY AND ITS A BIG DEAL.

Old Style Adjustable, like above but you have shims between the two races and you have to futz around with the shims until the wheel spins nice and has no play. You get these when the spindle uses two separate bearings and they're also not part of the hub. They're nice between you can re-shim it with wear or shim it tighter to handle higher loading than originally intended. I dont think I've ever seen a ball bearing like this.
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Old 03-21-2016, 08:47 PM   #64
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A Taper bearing is tightened until you take all slack out, and then tighten 12 to 24 in.# torque Max.., not until the wheel doesn't turn easy because that exist for several turns to tight. I've been doing it this way for 50 plus years and never had an issue with these wheel bearings. It's actually ok to have a very very slight amount of play in them verses being to tight, not so with ball bearings.

Last edited by jmann; 03-26-2016 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:08 PM   #65
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Were those cars with rollers adjustable? There's basically 3 ways to do a pair bearing combo be it tapered roller or angular contact ball.

Trailer level, two bearings opposed with plenty of clearance between the inner races, castle nut and cotter pin. You tighten the nut until the wheel doesnt turn easy and then back it off till you can cotter pin the castle nut. So your preload is set in really really rough increments which is fine on non-steering minimal side load wheel bearings.

Modern OEM, set preload, the inner bearing races are just set so that the two touch and you can crank the spindle nut until you shear the spindle off and it wont change the bearing preload. These are nice when you have good tolerances on all the bits involved or if the hub comes as a unit with the bearings so they can be assembled and together with the proper clearance. YOU"RE COMPLETELY AT THE MERCY OF CHINA TO SET THIS CORRECTLY AND ITS A BIG DEAL.

Old Style Adjustable, like above but you have shims between the two races and you have to futz around with the shims until the wheel spins nice and has no play. You get these when the spindle uses two separate bearings and they're also not part of the hub. They're nice between you can re-shim it with wear or shim it tighter to handle higher loading than originally intended. I dont think I've ever seen a ball bearing like this.
Shims between the races. They absolutely sucked even when set precisely to the specs.

Last edited by bbundy; 03-22-2016 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:09 PM   #66
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A Taper bearing is tightened until you take all slack out, and then tighten 10 to 15# torque Max.., not until the wheel doesn't turn easy because that exist for several turns to tight. I've been doing it this way for 50 plus years and never had an issue with these wheel bearings. It's actually ok to have a very very slight amount of play in them verses being to tight, not so with ball bearings.
Good for cheap trailers.
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Old 03-22-2016, 09:10 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Were those cars with rollers adjustable? There's basically 3 ways to do a pair bearing combo be it tapered roller or angular contact ball.

Trailer level, two bearings opposed with plenty of clearance between the inner races, castle nut and cotter pin. You tighten the nut until the wheel doesnt turn easy and then back it off till you can cotter pin the castle nut. So your preload is set in really really rough increments which is fine on non-steering minimal side load wheel bearings.

Modern OEM, set preload, the inner bearing races are just set so that the two touch and you can crank the spindle nut until you shear the spindle off and it wont change the bearing preload. These are nice when you have good tolerances on all the bits involved or if the hub comes as a unit with the bearings so they can be assembled and together with the proper clearance. YOU"RE COMPLETELY AT THE MERCY OF CHINA TO SET THIS CORRECTLY AND ITS A BIG DEAL.

Old Style Adjustable, like above but you have shims between the two races and you have to futz around with the shims until the wheel spins nice and has no play. You get these when the spindle uses two separate bearings and they're also not part of the hub. They're nice between you can re-shim it with wear or shim it tighter to handle higher loading than originally intended. I dont think I've ever seen a ball bearing like this.
We don't deal with China on these (or any) products. These are all parts sourced in Taiwan from a Tier 1, ISO9000 manufacturer. The bearings themselves are U.S. made Timken bearings, non-adjustable.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:48 PM   #68
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Good for all the cars and PU's I've had with them to this day and lots of others that I know of in the 60's and 70's when I was racing.
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:59 AM   #69
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interesting reading and product - cordy - go for it. This is making me re-evaluate my thinking a bit on wheel bearings - my 71 911E has tapered, and the tapereds on the Porsche's thru 96 werent known for failure i don't believe, and they were raced - just a bit. I managed a bearing manufacturing facility for a while and we built both automotive (VW, Chrysler) hub units - all *****, and heavy truck bearings - all tapered. My belief is that the OEM's changed to hub units to reduce assembly line work, tho I could be wrong.
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Old 03-24-2016, 02:07 PM   #70
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interesting reading and product - cordy - go for it. This is making me re-evaluate my thinking a bit on wheel bearings - my 71 911E has tapered, and the tapereds on the Porsche's thru 96 werent known for failure i don't believe, and they were raced - just a bit. I managed a bearing manufacturing facility for a while and we built both automotive (VW, Chrysler) hub units - all *****, and heavy truck bearings - all tapered. My belief is that the OEM's changed to hub units to reduce assembly line work, tho I could be wrong.
Adjusting non pre-set tapered rollers on an assembly line is a horrible process that results in poor quality control I can attest to that. I work with heavy trucks. Heavy trucks in virtually all the rest of the world except the USA/north America which is still stuck in the dark ages uses cartridge type bearings that you just tighten down and don't adjust. tapered rollers are generally used in heavy load applications ***** are used for High speed and lower rolling resistance.
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Old 03-25-2016, 09:52 PM   #71
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interesting reading and product - cordy - go for it. This is making me re-evaluate my thinking a bit on wheel bearings - my 71 911E has tapered, and the tapereds on the Porsche's thru 96 werent known for failure i don't believe, and they were raced - just a bit. I managed a bearing manufacturing facility for a while and we built both automotive (VW, Chrysler) hub units - all *****, and heavy truck bearings - all tapered. My belief is that the OEM's changed to hub units to reduce assembly line work, tho I could be wrong.
By hub "units", I assume that you mean bearings installed as a cartridge that require no preloading or fiddling when they're installed. I'll go with that. My other default reason for everything is liability. Stick a lawyer in any situation where there's a potential for a law suit, and they'll make you change your product to stoopid-proof it for the consumer. Maybe not for bearings, but most everything else seems that way.
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:49 PM   #72
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We don't deal with China on these (or any) products. These are all parts sourced in Taiwan from a Tier 1, ISO9000 manufacturer. The bearings themselves are U.S. made Timken bearings, non-adjustable.
I know many of the Application Engineers at Timken's World Head Quarters in North Canton, OH. Can you provide us the Part Number that will be used for these hubs? I would like to see if they will provide me all the specs on the bearings (OD,ID,treatment,lubricant,load ratings,etc.).

We are looking forward to ordering a pair once they are available.
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:14 PM   #73
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I know many of the Application Engineers at Timken's World Head Quarters in North Canton, OH. Can you provide us the Part Number that will be used for these hubs? I would like to see if they will provide me all the specs on the bearings (OD,ID,treatment,lubricant,load ratings,etc.).
Seriously?

"I know some guys at your vendor, can you provide me with all of your proprietary intellectual property on your new product?"

Want to see his **** too?

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Old 03-30-2016, 01:56 PM   #74
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Want to see his **** too?
Well, this is MT.net.

But, in all seriousness, it's not as though the part number of an OEM bearing constitutes "all of your proprietary intellectual property on your new product." As soon as the hubs start shipping, the p/n of the bearing insert will be essentially public-domain knowledge.

Knowing that number won't make it any easier for someone else to attempt to create a knockoff product. If demand is sufficiently high, then the design will eventually be copied by an Asian manufacturer and distributed in the US for a lower price. If it is not (and I seriously doubt that it will be), then the impetus to copy the product will be small.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:15 AM   #75
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Seriously?

"I know some guys at your vendor, can you provide me with all of your proprietary intellectual property on your new product?"

Want to see his **** too?

A Part Number on a suppliers product is not intellectual property. All We want to know is if the Part Number he is using because we want to know how Timken is hardening the bearings: case-carburized, through-hardened, or nothing. Case-carburized and through-hardening are staples of Timken bearings and depending on the application which one (if any) should/is being used http://www.timken.com/en-us/solution...ts/Vol6No2.pdf. Anyone can look up the specs of Timken's bearing on their website too based on any number of dimensional data points or Part Number http://www.timken.com/en-us/Knowledg...s/default.aspx.

Didn't know this was a sore subject. I figured this is data everyone would like to know that I could provide.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:35 AM   #76
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Aaron

its waste of our time explaining why your "question" is in poor taste and came across so confidently, i.e. arrogantly, that its amazing.

Cord is plenty capable to build the product himself, and I did not hear him ask for help asking Timken for product support.

Again, I don't expect you to understand why we think you are way off line: if you did understand you would never cross the line..I assume you are older than 10, maybe even of drinking age, by than if you don't distinguish wrong from right, its too late.

Please, unless you have something to add that will help us/enlighten us, do not pollute the discussion.

FYI: like all OEMs Timken provides their customers will all pertinent information upon request, and I am sure Cord has it- how else could he complete FEA Analysis, and conclude the product chosen is performed well...see 1st page for that!!
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:51 AM   #77
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^i bet you're a riot at parties.

Seems to me like he could have gotten some information which could potentially answer some of the questions posed in this thread.
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:07 PM   #78
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A Part Number on a suppliers product is not intellectual property. All We want to know is if the Part Number he is using because we want to know how Timken is hardening the bearings: case-carburized, through-hardened, or nothing.
It's one thing to ask Cord if the bearing he's using is case-carburized, through-hardened, or nothing. It's quite another to ask him to essentially provide you with all of the dimensional specifications on a product he hasn't even released yet.

Quote:
Didn't know this was a sore subject. I figured this is data everyone would like to know that I could provide.
I assume you work in the industry, based on your username, so let me ask you this: Can I have the engineering drawings for your most recent product in devleopment? It's certainly nothing that won't be in the public domain once the product is released, so it's hardly intellectual property, right?

This community is rife with knock-offs and rip-off artists. My own products have been ripped off by vendors who advertise on this site alongside me. So yes, you could say that it's a bit of a sore subject for me. Sorry if I offended you, but IMO it's inappropriate to pose such a question to a vendor regarding a product in development.
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:17 PM   #79
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Sav, I'd like your vendor contact info for the outfit that casts your exhaust manifolds. KTHANKSBYE.
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:39 PM   #80
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This community is rife with knock-offs and rip-off artists. My own products have been ripped off by vendors who advertise on this site alongside me.
Good thing they can't rip off excellent TSE customer service and response to customers. Worth passing up bargain price for quality support.
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