Track brakes
06-21-2012, 05:24 PM
#101
I'm using Wilwood EXP 600. The fronts were really black. I also noticed my front rotors turned blue after the second track day. The TSE kit is on the horizon. Right now I have Wilwood Dynalites, Maruha brackets and sport rotors.
Dark fluid is very bad. It usually means your fluid is full of moisture and will boil more easily. It can also mean rust, rubber parts degrading, or exposure to excessive heat. In any case, it should be light and clear.
If you are tracking the car you should be changing the fluid every two months anyway, especially if using stock-type fluid. The guys using high dollar fluids don't usually have to do it quite so often. Pro race teams change it every race.
Keep the exposure of the fluid to the air to an absolute minimum because the fluid sucks moisture out of the air. I keep the reservoir lid and the caps from the bottles on as much as possible. I also buy only the smaller bottles so that the fluid stays fresh better. I'm not even close to being the fastest guy here but at ~200whp with Hoosier slicks I haven't reached the limit of off the shelf DOT4 on the track yet.
If you are tracking the car you should be changing the fluid every two months anyway, especially if using stock-type fluid. The guys using high dollar fluids don't usually have to do it quite so often. Pro race teams change it every race.
Keep the exposure of the fluid to the air to an absolute minimum because the fluid sucks moisture out of the air. I keep the reservoir lid and the caps from the bottles on as much as possible. I also buy only the smaller bottles so that the fluid stays fresh better. I'm not even close to being the fastest guy here but at ~200whp with Hoosier slicks I haven't reached the limit of off the shelf DOT4 on the track yet.
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06-21-2012, 11:03 PM
#102
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Dark fluid that looks like motor oil... used oil or new oil?
Assuming new motor oil
Motul RBF-600 right out of a new bottle is considerably darker than normal DOT-4. But it might be time to change it if say it is as dark as Rotella T6. If it is DOT-4 and it is that dark, it is definitely time to change it. Ginger Ale color, OK. Ice tea color, not OK.
Assuming used motor oil...
That is so bad that kittens will drop dead in their tracks if you get within 100 yards. You are single handed-ly responsible for global warming, and Al Gore has a contract out on your ***. Change that ---- NOW and keep a close eye on it. You could have seals that are about to die as mentioned above.
Assuming new motor oil
Motul RBF-600 right out of a new bottle is considerably darker than normal DOT-4. But it might be time to change it if say it is as dark as Rotella T6. If it is DOT-4 and it is that dark, it is definitely time to change it. Ginger Ale color, OK. Ice tea color, not OK.
Assuming used motor oil...
That is so bad that kittens will drop dead in their tracks if you get within 100 yards. You are single handed-ly responsible for global warming, and Al Gore has a contract out on your ***. Change that ---- NOW and keep a close eye on it. You could have seals that are about to die as mentioned above.
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06-22-2012, 07:43 AM
#103
The EXP600 is a bit lighter than ginger ale out of the bottle. I've flushed new fluid through the system now.
The fluid from the rear was more like Rotella T6. It's the fronts that came out pretty black. More like dark sediments floating in new T6. I'm not talking about ALL the fluid, but I'm guessing the first 2" worth in the line, about 2 cracks of the bleeder.
This is not good, I'm a bit worried now.
EDIT: I think I'm in denial. Should I just replace the piston seals before my next event. I've got an all day practice on the 29th, and a time attack on July 8th.
The fluid from the rear was more like Rotella T6. It's the fronts that came out pretty black. More like dark sediments floating in new T6. I'm not talking about ALL the fluid, but I'm guessing the first 2" worth in the line, about 2 cracks of the bleeder.
This is not good, I'm a bit worried now.
EDIT: I think I'm in denial. Should I just replace the piston seals before my next event. I've got an all day practice on the 29th, and a time attack on July 8th.
Last edited by dgmorr; 06-22-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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06-22-2012, 09:13 AM
#104
Just flush the colored stuff out after each event (or every other depending on how hard you really consume fluid). The fronts are easily gravity bled.
How often you should replace all the fluid you can have a M.net discussion about.
I replace all of it before each season, together with the rest of the pre-season service stuff.
The fluid in the reservoir, lines and ABS don't see any significant heat, it's moisture over time that plays a role there.
How often you should replace all the fluid you can have a M.net discussion about.
I replace all of it before each season, together with the rest of the pre-season service stuff.
The fluid in the reservoir, lines and ABS don't see any significant heat, it's moisture over time that plays a role there.
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06-22-2012, 06:39 PM
#106
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Don't quote me but based on your description I do not think you will have a catastrophic seal failure. It would probably degrade over several braking cycles, assuming it degrades at all. So flush the whole system, and keep a close eye on it. Pay attention to braking feel and whether it changes. If it does, slow way down (safely), get OFF the track on that lap and look over the entire system.
Related story time... I recently had an on-track brake failure where there were warning signs I ignored and attributed to brake fade. I was in the heat of battle and did not want to stop. Several corners later I had NO brakes going into a fast corner, with a passenger, which sucked. I saved it with awezome driving skillzz. But the point is it was a preventable failure had I heeded the warning signs, slowed down, and exited the track.
Also look for chunks of black stuff in the bottom of the master cylinder bowl. A bit of extremely fine dark material is probably OK. Chunks you can see with your naked eye, not OK.
Token caveat: This advice is worth what you are paying for it. We are talking about brakes here. The happy place is somewhere between a full system rebuild after every session (F1 type approach) and not doing any maintenance for several seasons (Social Darwinism approach). Ultimately you have to get educated and decide what you are comfortable with.
Related story time... I recently had an on-track brake failure where there were warning signs I ignored and attributed to brake fade. I was in the heat of battle and did not want to stop. Several corners later I had NO brakes going into a fast corner, with a passenger, which sucked. I saved it with awezome driving skillzz. But the point is it was a preventable failure had I heeded the warning signs, slowed down, and exited the track.
Also look for chunks of black stuff in the bottom of the master cylinder bowl. A bit of extremely fine dark material is probably OK. Chunks you can see with your naked eye, not OK.
Token caveat: This advice is worth what you are paying for it. We are talking about brakes here. The happy place is somewhere between a full system rebuild after every session (F1 type approach) and not doing any maintenance for several seasons (Social Darwinism approach). Ultimately you have to get educated and decide what you are comfortable with.
Last edited by ZX-Tex; 06-22-2012 at 06:50 PM.
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06-22-2012, 07:42 PM
#107
Thanks for the advice. I've never tracked a car this hard before, so I'm going to have to come up with a proper maintenance plan. Definitely going to spend the $20 on new seals in the coming month.
I did notice the pedal got slightly softer in my last session, which is what lead me to flush them now.
I did notice the pedal got slightly softer in my last session, which is what lead me to flush them now.
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06-22-2012, 11:29 PM
#108
Token caveat: This advice is worth what you are paying for it. We are talking about brakes here. The happy place is somewhere between a full system rebuild after every session (F1 type approach) and not doing any maintenance for several seasons (Social Darwinism approach). Ultimately you have to get educated and decide what you are comfortable with.
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07-02-2012, 02:36 PM
#110
Hustler and you other Texas guys, got any ECR vids? I've had brakes fade a bunch on me at ECR on that back straight, but i've never felt unsafe. Granted you are turning times several seconds faster than I was in your turbo car. I really want to see where you guys are braking.
I can see how some people get into trouble there though, i was at ECR weekend before last and rode with a guy in a BMW that was braking waaaay too late. i feared for my life a few times lol, not suggesting that's what any of you are doing. but to those that are new to tracking, where you brake and how you turn in can make a huge difference in how hard you are on brakes. i thought the factory brakes on my old car rocked and people were insane to suggest factory brembos weren't good enough for track work. then i got fast and things changed in a few sessions.
I can see how some people get into trouble there though, i was at ECR weekend before last and rode with a guy in a BMW that was braking waaaay too late. i feared for my life a few times lol, not suggesting that's what any of you are doing. but to those that are new to tracking, where you brake and how you turn in can make a huge difference in how hard you are on brakes. i thought the factory brakes on my old car rocked and people were insane to suggest factory brembos weren't good enough for track work. then i got fast and things changed in a few sessions.
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07-03-2012, 12:11 AM
#111
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I have not been to ECR yet but that will change this year in October.
Some say, in reality that it can no longer be called Eagle's Canyon because he ate them all. And that he reduces ECR brake wear by stopping with telekenesis. All we know is, he's called The Hustler.
Some say, in reality that it can no longer be called Eagle's Canyon because he ate them all. And that he reduces ECR brake wear by stopping with telekenesis. All we know is, he's called The Hustler.
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07-31-2012, 12:57 AM
#114
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Random question is random, but how come I hardly see any mention of FM's BBK? If someone can school me in how it compares relative to the competition (TSE (*no longer does 11", I know), Goodwin, etc) I'd appreciate it.
From my casually observant armchair position, it seems like I should be hearing more about it for $999 - Wilwood 4 piston calipers, two piece rotors, rear brackets, prop valve, etc. I just don't think I've seen anyone running it on here.
From my casually observant armchair position, it seems like I should be hearing more about it for $999 - Wilwood 4 piston calipers, two piece rotors, rear brackets, prop valve, etc. I just don't think I've seen anyone running it on here.
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07-31-2012, 01:34 AM
#115
Random question is random, but how come I hardly see any mention of FM's BBK? If someone can school me in how it compares relative to the competition (TSE (*no longer does 11", I know), Goodwin, etc) I'd appreciate it.
From my casually observant armchair position, it seems like I should be hearing more about it for $999 - Wilwood 4 piston calipers, two piece rotors, rear brackets, prop valve, etc. I just don't think I've seen anyone running it on here.
From my casually observant armchair position, it seems like I should be hearing more about it for $999 - Wilwood 4 piston calipers, two piece rotors, rear brackets, prop valve, etc. I just don't think I've seen anyone running it on here.
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07-31-2012, 05:15 AM
#118
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impressive. I've sent a brake piston through a backing plate, long story, but never seen failure like that on a oem set up. was that a custom race pad? a ---- rotor? or both. you are lucky the rotor didn't explode and take out a wheel
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