EO2K

iTrader: (37)

I'd tend to call Savington a reliable source, but I understand why you wouldn't trust Hustler

shanem

iTrader: (1)

LOL yeah sometimes i think hustler only plays a dick online and is a decent guy IRL, other days I'm not sure lol

I was mostly talking about other track side advice i've had, the stuff from the TDR guy was mostly opposite what others have told me hence the OP and observations on cooling tests at the track.

mx5-kiwi

Is that silver strip thing a part of a vent in the back of the bonnet?

Savington

iTrader: (31)

What high-horsepower Miata prepped by TDR has consistently run 5+ seconds under SM record at every track in Texas?

Bottom line is that I've been doing this for years and years, I push my cars harder than 99.9% of my customers ever will, and as such I am able to sell real solutions to real problems that other shops may never even run across.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

The first email I returned to you 6-months ago suggested you properly duct the car, today it's still not done. I gave you my best advice, I offered to let you come look at my ducting, I sent you pics of my ducting, you admitted your ducting is not sealed-up. Now four people have told you this, and all four track(ed) 250whp+ Miatas in the heat. Yes, sometimes I sound like a dick. I don't have a dog in this fight, do whatever you want; I can't possibly attempt to help anymore than I already have.

shanem

iTrader: (1)

i'm not doubting you at all Sav, nor you hustler. it's not fixed yet mostly because of a combo of a lack of skills and a lack of time.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

I was working on my ducting tonight so I decided to take some pictures for you. I have a reroute, and TSE radiator. I use the stock belly pan with holes cut in it to fit intercooler piping through. I then used the cheap plastic boards that political signs are made out of the close up the front and sides of my intercooler. It is not the greatest ducting, but it works for now.

shanem

iTrader: (1)

nice, thanks for the pics. i have some printed out of hustlers set up too. It's hard to tell, the front bumper is removed in those or is it not?

Also i may have done a better job ducting than i thought, you have better fit around the intercooling tubes, but otherwise its similar to what i did only i used roll plastic and some aluminum angles with rivets and duct tape.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

The front bumper is not removed in those pictures. Also using cereal boxes, or card board of that thinness is the easiest way to mock up everything. I think I have about 5-7 hours total into my ducting work. Total tools needed were a box cutter and scissors.

shanem

iTrader: (1)

man i have lots more stuff in those areas then, it was hard to get to.

hustler

iTrader: (6)

Poverty silicone ITT.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Proper ducting is a PITA to do, I will no deny that. What else do you have in those areas? Your oil cooler is behind your radiator, so you don't have to worry about those lines.

shanem

iTrader: (1)

there are some supports and the silicone hoses from the intercooler are bigger than your metal ones. i also have 3-inch diameter brake cooling ducts in the vicinity.

shanem

iTrader: (1)

I ordered up the TSE radiator today, should be here early in Jan. While I have the old radiator out Ill flush the cooling system (the water in it looks like a mud puddle) and then do proper ducting while all the intercooler hoses are off. I guess i will have a 37mm koyo rad for sale soon.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

If you do not have the reroute then you also need to order that to. It is worth the money. If you are really cheap you can read all the threads on here on how to do it cheap.

shanem

iTrader: (1)

yeah i will order it, i wanted to do the radiator first and i need to replace the brake pads and rotors so i can get the car back on the track. I'll order the reroute once my wallet recovers from the purchase of the radiator and brakes. i wish i purchased one of the wilwood BBKs for the miata when they were on sale a few months ago for $499.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

You can do the reroute for about $125 or so. You order the Begi spacer, get the kia water neck, and the GM coolant hose. Then get the TSE front block off plate.

plucas

You are not fully correct. Just because it has the ability to shed more heat, does not mean it actually will. You have to have proper air flow and ducting. Even then, you might not see an actual improvement going with a thicker core. I guarantee a 27mm radiator with a Denso core would out perform a Koyo 37 or Koyo 55. Thickness is not the only thing that matters and actually doesn't help that much as it has diminishing returns. The main factors of heat rejection in a radiator is core cross-sectional area, air speed, and water-side Reynolds Number. Also core geometry design plays a big role. Tube spacing, fin count, and fin geometry can make or break whether a radiator will cool or not. Thicker is not better.

Also bigger radiators, aka larger water capacity, does delay the problem. It can be proved with the science of heat transfer.

dstn2bdoa

iTrader: (18)

Savington

iTrader: (31)

All true, but what you're conveniently forgetting is that beyond switching to dual cores (we have) and making the radiator slightly taller (we have), there is no other way of increasing core cross-sectional area other than going thicker (or tube-framing the front of the car, but I don't think that's reasonable for most people). We are restricted by the shape of the car, so we have to do what we can within the space constraints.

The gains from going thicker are diminishing, yes, and it's not the ideal way to increase heat transfer, but it's the only option that large-market aftermarket radiators have, and there are still gains to be seen. We've proven this empirically through hundreds and hundreds of hours of testing.

No, they don't. You are associating "bigger radiator" and "larger water capacity" without acknowledging that 1) a larger radiator with a greater transfer area from the incoming air to the coolant is going to shed more heat, and 2) larger radiators don't always have more water in them. If you put an insulated water tank with zero heat transfer capability in-line with one of the radiator hoses, then yes, it's just going to delay the problem, but the increased water capacity is not what keeps the car cooler. The truth is that our radiators actually have LESS water capacity than a Koyo 55mm, which is why (despite their size) they weigh the same when filled with water.