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Old 07-28-2015, 08:41 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by vtjballeng View Post
... I would change this though and say the trend today is combustion efficiency....[/url]
And many many other things. It's not just combustion efficiency. That's just one aspect.

Torque does not move your car. Try this, remove the engine, and put a torque wrench on the input shaft, and apply a torque to it, any torque you like. See how far you drive off.

You will need an engine that produces some amount of HP to drive your car.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:49 PM   #422
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And many many other things. It's not just combustion efficiency. That's just one aspect.

Torque does not move your car. Try this, remove the engine, and put a torque wrench on the input shaft, and apply a torque to it, any torque you like. See how far you drive off.

You will need an engine that produces some amount of HP to drive your car.
HP is just one of those many things. So is combustion efficiency. Today the big fight is efficiency and emissions at the OEM level. Obviously both HP AND torque (and work and energy) are required for actual vehicle movement. Technically it is the force that moves the vehicle. HP is what moves the vehicle "faster" as a matter of simplification.

I really can't make it simpler than F=ma for you.

Last edited by vtjballeng; 07-28-2015 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 07-28-2015, 08:53 PM   #423
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...
I really can't make it simpler than F=ma for you.
I officially give up!
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:02 PM   #424
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<p>Did he just tell you to F your ma?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Do we really need to stoop to that level here?<br />&nbsp;</p>
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:09 PM   #425
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So the Dodge got ~50% better fuel economy AND the trailer had a huge sail on the front of it?

I wonder how the VW would do in the same test...
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:12 PM   #426
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Sure, but I also like my 6k lb trucks to be 3/4 ton trucks instead of another fat Chrysler product.

As you should too since you pay for GCVW in NC.
I'll happily pay another $100 in registration fees a year to have a more comfortable and safer tow vehicle.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:00 PM   #427
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So the Dodge got ~50% better fuel economy AND the trailer had a huge sail on the front of it?

I wonder how the VW would do in the same test...
I wonder how the Ford would do at the Ram's speed.

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I'll happily pay another $100 in registration fees a year to have a more comfortable and safer tow vehicle.
I'm glad you agree that the 3/4 ton option is better.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:09 PM   #428
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I would give my left nut to have an Amorok. I wish the USA had a small frame diesel truck.
One sold at a local police auction in Clinton IL this weekend for 17.8K. IT was nice they tow like 6k pounds or something. Still though its a VW... it somehow came from Mexico but came with a clean and clear IL title.

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Expect the diesel to start at or over $30k for the simplest model. Don't be surprised if it's only available on full-boat models. If they do that, then you'll be $40k+ in your little diesel pickup.
<br />
<br />Source: I sell GMC Canyons at my dealer. Gas models can already almost hit $40k.
My friend special ordered a Colorado sticker was 38k IIRC and he got it for 35k-36k. And he ordered it when it came out. Like a few days after they could be ordered waited 5+ months for the truck. Consider once the car is on the market for a year they will have more discounts forsure. NO retard is paying 40k + for a mid size chevy truck.

My friend bought a Cummins quad cab ram New 4x4 auto and it was discounted to 38k. Sticker was 48k or 52k. Discounts will be had...

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If memory serves the Colorado will require the high end trim package for the diesel. That "little" truck got me excited, but all the things I want come with much more expensive things I don't want.
"$31,700 for 4x2 crew cab models. No high end package needed.
six-speed automatic, the only gearbox choice, they have a maximum trailering rating of 7,700 pounds for the 2WD trucks and 7,600 pounds for the 4WD trucks.

They come standard with a trailing package featuring a hitch receiver and seven-pin connector, an automatic locking rear differential and a 3.42 rear axle ratio." - jalopnik

so 31k + basic trim upgrade package another 2k-3k. Discounts once they are a year or two old or buy one used I'll be in 25-30k like I said.
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Old 07-29-2015, 01:23 PM   #429
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I really like the idea of that ecodiesel either way. My major problem with diesel these days still goes back to how nerfed the fuel economy is on them.

15 years ago, I want to tow a house, I go grab a superduty diesel, get excellent mileage (compared to a big gas v8), and the fuel itself is far cheaper than gas.

These days, thanks to clean diesel helping the environment, I get to instead pay a 50 cent premium or so per gallon, killing a lot of the mpg savings.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:29 PM   #430
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These days, thanks to clean diesel helping the environment, I get to instead pay a 50 cent premium or so per gallon, killing a lot of the mpg savings.
Today in Silicon Valley, I can get a gallon of 87 for $3.14 at Costco. The cheapest diesel is $2.83 at Arco.

e: To be fair, in Knoxville, diesel is more, but the average is 25 cents, not 50. http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/state...nnessee-metro/

Last edited by Savington; 07-29-2015 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:00 PM   #431
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Today in Silicon Valley, I can get a gallon of 87 for $3.14 at Costco. The cheapest diesel is $2.83 at Arco.

e: To be fair, in Knoxville, diesel is more, but the average is 25 cents, not 50. Tennessee Metro Areas Fuel Prices | AAA's Daily Fuel Gauge Report
The spread in Chicago was 60 cents cheaper for diesel the last 6 months. Now it's about .30 cheaper
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:28 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by natedawg View Post
One sold at a local police auction in Clinton IL this weekend for 17.8K. IT was nice they tow like 6k pounds or something. Still though its a VW... it somehow came from Mexico but came with a clean and clear IL title.



My friend special ordered a Colorado sticker was 38k IIRC and he got it for 35k-36k. And he ordered it when it came out. Like a few days after they could be ordered waited 5+ months for the truck. Consider once the car is on the market for a year they will have more discounts forsure. NO retard is paying 40k + for a mid size chevy truck.

My friend bought a Cummins quad cab ram New 4x4 auto and it was discounted to 38k. Sticker was 48k or 52k. Discounts will be had...



"$31,700 for 4x2 crew cab models. No high end package needed.
six-speed automatic, the only gearbox choice, they have a maximum trailering rating of 7,700 pounds for the 2WD trucks and 7,600 pounds for the 4WD trucks.

They come standard with a trailing package featuring a hitch receiver and seven-pin connector, an automatic locking rear differential and a 3.42 rear axle ratio." - jalopnik

so 31k + basic trim upgrade package another 2k-3k. Discounts once they are a year or two old or buy one used I'll be in 25-30k like I said.
Yeah, but I can buy an entry level Colorado for $20,000 list. That must be a hell of an engine the extra $12k buys you. Realistically it's too rich for my blood, unless it's reasonable for a daily driver.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:32 PM   #433
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<p>
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Originally Posted by PatCleary View Post
Yeah, but I can buy an entry level Colorado for $20,000 list. That must be a hell of an engine the extra $12k buys you. Realistically it's too rich for my blood, unless it's reasonable for a daily driver.
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The $12k buys a helluva lot more than just the engine.</p><p>But it's a lot of money.</p>
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:50 PM   #434
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I guess that's my point. I don't need all that. If I could I'd buy 2 doors and a bench seat, but we've decided that is too bare bones for trucks these days. Realistically if I was going to buy it'd probably be a lightly optioned V6, seems to be the logical choice.
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Old 07-29-2015, 09:26 PM   #435
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What everyone forgets is that you aren't just flushing the extra cash down the toilet. My truck's diesel was a $6600 option in 2005, but the truck is worth at that much more than a gas 2500HD. You're just parking that money in a place where you're getting some extra enjoyment out of it, instead of in an investment account somewhere. It's hard to say how much extra a diesel Canyon/Colorado would be worth, but history shows that used diesel trucks are always worth a lot more than used gas trucks.
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Old 07-29-2015, 10:50 PM   #436
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<p>That's what I've always been telling people about the diesel VW's. People balked at the roughly $2500 premium for the diesel. But a 5-year old diesel is worth at least $4-5k more than an equivalent gas model. A 10-year old diesel is easily worth double the equivalent gas model.</p><p>Holds true with trucks too for sure.</p>
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Old 07-30-2015, 01:41 AM   #437
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<p>That's what I've always been telling people about the diesel VW's. People balked at the roughly $2500 premium for the diesel. But a 5-year old diesel is worth at least $4-5k more than an equivalent gas model. A 10-year old diesel is easily worth double the equivalent gas model.</p><p>Holds true with trucks too for sure.</p>
I agree old 2nd gen dodges cummins in a good shape are $6k-15k you can buy a gasser for 4k or less all day.

Makes me mad my dad bought a 01 dodge ram for $25k new. put 80k miles on it sold it last week for $3500. Diesel would have been around $28-30k Truck with that low of miles would be worth really good money $10k or more.
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Old 07-30-2015, 08:47 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Today in Silicon Valley, I can get a gallon of 87 for $3.14 at Costco. The cheapest diesel is $2.83 at Arco.

e: To be fair, in Knoxville, diesel is more, but the average is 25 cents, not 50. Tennessee Metro Areas Fuel Prices | AAA's Daily Fuel Gauge Report
Quote:
Originally Posted by natedawg View Post
The spread in Chicago was 60 cents cheaper for diesel the last 6 months. Now it's about .30 cheaper
Well there's some good news, maybe it'll be worth it to get diesel in my next truck. Sounds like it's coming down, although prices always spike in the winter because of demand for home heating oil in the northeast.

Still if clean diesel is cheaper than gas again elsewhere, great, maybe we'll get some of that eventually.
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Old 07-30-2015, 09:39 AM   #439
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Investment grade VWs? lololol
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Old 07-30-2015, 02:09 PM   #440
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Investment grade VWs? lololol
I'd say that no modern VW diesels are "investment grade" because they've become far too costly and complex to keep running as they age. I know there are anecdotes on both sides of the VW diesel reliability debate, with some people saying they did nothing but oil changes and others having a nightmare with constant breakdowns and expensive repairs.

About the only true investment grade VWs are 23 window buses, oval window bugs, and other esoteric models like the Golf G60 Limited (and to a lesser extent Rallye Golf, mint Corrado VR6, Mk4 R32, etc.)
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