EO2K

iTrader: (37)

Broken out from some comments here: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...269#post808269

Lets keep the "LOL@Rotrex, u shuda git thurboh" comments to a minimum?

I am using the stock supplied 88mm (iirc) pulley that came with the kit. The more I think about this and the more I read, it HAS TO BE and alignment issue. The problem is the lack of adjustability in the mounting system.

Falco: Do you happen to know if your 1.6 mounting plate is the same as the 1.8 version? If they are the same, and IIRC,

1. You are not running the AC or PS so you don't have the PS mounting points for the backing plate
2. You are running a genuine rotrex pulley (as opposed to the KW one) so your spacing may be slightly different

Without AC & PS that gives you a long belt run between the rotrex & crank to take up any misalignment that may be in the system. I'm just pissing in the wind here, but that may be part of it.

Rotrex came out of the car last night. I looped the oil lines so the oil reservoir and cooling system remain mounted for later. Just under 2 hours to put it back to stock. So I've got that goin for me, which is nice.

falcon

iTrader: (13)

Not sure to be honest. I had a buddy here who had a rotrex and i was going to buy his shiii and kraftwerks said it would not fit. My guess is the offset is different since the length and the bore spacing is different from the B6 and BP.

I am also as you said not running AC or PS.. so ya it may be enough to take up misalignment. But looking at my belt it looks as straight as an arrow.

mx594m

iTrader: (1)

you sir are experiencing the reason I ditched my Rotrex

I think three things are at play

one - belt retention was harder with 150mm overspeed crank pulley
two - the absence of any fore/aft adjustment on the Rotrex mounting bracket [forced me to experiment with adding washer/shims to the brace that bolts to the rear of the mounting bracket]
three - not so sure that the mounting bracket doesn't flex at speed

my experience was it would start eating belts, I would fiddle and adjust until it wouldn't, and that would last about 1 week and the process would start all over again

I would add, that when the Rotrex was right, it was awesome; 60 to 80 in two car lengths, convinced me to stay with a centrifugal blower and not return to a PD [even though I have a new MP-90 in a box in my garage]

good luck

Scooter25

iTrader: (1)

I installed my c30-74 @ 90k miles and am now approaching 135k, consisting of DD and several track days. When I initially installed mine there were some belt alignment issues. It turned out that KW had a couple earlier generations of pulley and mounting plates, which had slightly different offsets. Once we figured out that I happened to recieve mixed generations and got it changed, I have had zero belt issues. I think this could be the issue alot of people have encountered. In fact I started emailing Brian last week about getting some oil and a new filter (so many miles that I'm due for a traction fluid change) as well as a 75mm pulley and a restrictor.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

Good to see I'm not the only one with that issue. The Skunk2 boys claim that "You are the only one that has had belt issues" but I feel this may be a misnomer. The helpdesk call center has a tendency to be real quiet when you unplug the phone

mx594m: Were you able to get in touch with Kraftwerks or Skunk2 about the issue? Was there any attempt to make it right?

Scooter25: Glad to hear there might be hope. Any chance you have some info on how to identify the mounting plates or the different pulleys? When did you initially purchase your kit?

Apparently all email communication has halted once again after the "remove the rotrex" recommendation. I'll get out the sharp stick again today and see what happens.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

turbos dont eat belts, they eat :insert car make/model:.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

ಠ_ಠ
I like what Mobius said in the other thread:
I'm obviously a "doesn't" but there does not seem to be any path to make it work unless I start shimming things with washers (but I think that's pushing me the wrong way) or hogging my own mounting system out of 1/4" aluminum plate, and neither is attractive. I stopped working in CNC manufacturing years ago. I don't get the same thrill out of re-engineering things like I used to when I was younger.

Braineack: in all seriousness, I've thought going turbo for the last couple months. Another member here who bought my previous Black 95 NA put a used BEGi Sx system w/GT2554 w/IC & MSPNP. He's making right around 200-ish whp @ 10-ish psi on a completely stock 175k engine. He keeps offering to let me drive it but I can't bring myself to do it. That DIYPNP you built for me is still sitting on my workbench next to the C30-74 mocking me. Right next to my RX7 red tops, AEM UEGO wideband, boost gauge, dual feed rail, square top manifold, BP5A cam, Walbro HP, Godspeed M IC.... this list is long and distinguished and frighteningly embarrassing. I tend to think I've tried to do this right, but I clicked the wrong box when asked for a forced induction method.

I see 3 paths for this build:

1) Try to sell the rotrex with minimal loss and go turbo. (lulz)
2) Get KW/S2 to fix my rotrex issues and then try to be happy with it. (more lulz)
3) Stay NA for "reliability" and hang with the whitebread peeps on m.net

I'm in CA so I'm just as illegal with either path. I bought into the "CARB pending" crap with the Rotrex because no one makes a legal turbo kit for me. Ease of removal with lack of permanent mods pulled me pretty hard with the rotrex, but I'm beginning to think turbo is not nearly as bad as I've been led to believe (other than the pan drilling.) I've been internet stalking MartinezA92 :wave: and some of the other local CA turbo guys to see how they deal with the biannual inspection thing.

Frustrations: I has dem

At this point, I have everything I need to make 200hp (or more) street driven HP on a stock engine without spending any more money, its just does not work as advertised. I've been watching guys like Jfornachon and a few others try to move used rotrex kits for as little as $2,500 in the last couple months, and the market is not exactly scrambling even at that price. If I could get $2.5k, I'm still not sure I could get mani/dp/full exhaust/turbo/charge pipes & coolant lines at that price point, unless I find a spectacular part-out. It all comes down to $$$ and I freely admit I bet all mine on the wrong damn horse. So much for trying something different...

Scooter25

iTrader: (1)

I bought my kit in June '10. The only visual difference that I recall is on my first pulley the the belt sat within the pulley between some outer ridges. On the second pulley there are no ridges or guides. I'm going down to KW/S2 on the 9th to get a 75mm and restrictor. When I get the new pulley put on I'll take some pics of both variations of the 88mm pulleys side by side.

mx594m

iTrader: (1)

EO2K - I feel your pain - even without the requirement of periodic inspection I opted to ditch the Rotrex; sold it for 60 cents on the purchase dollar, I am happy, the buyer is too. Was tempted to go back to a twin screw, but really like the linearity of the centrifugal, hence, the turbo.

Did I contact 949 and KW; yes; but with limited result; my install shop managed to break the auto tensioner and Sr. Jackson replaced it. It is my unscientific observation that about 50% of the Rotrex installs on the miata engine have issues involving the belt, pulleys, brackets. I know of two really successful non-professional installations; Coral Doc in Fla and Falcon[?] in BC.

since you aren't using them, sell me your COPs and MS2 -- LOL

BTW - put a deposit on a 6-speed last night, pick it up after the new year, a nice addition to the 3.63 I have in the garage

anyone here have any experience running ATF in the transmission instead of Redline?

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

I'd go down there myself but I might end up punching someone at this point. No reply from Brian or anyone else from Skunk2 atm, but I'll give them a little leeway for the holiday season. Is that 75mm a KW or a genuine Rotrex pulley? Either way, I'd love to 'borrow' your working 88mm (or whatever size you have that works) so I could take it to the shop and get some solid measurements. I'd be willing to paypal you a deposit or somesuch if that makes you feel better, PM me if you are interested.

Geebus, $0.60 on the dollar was a hell of a deal for someone, 75% is about as much as I could stomach currently. My problem right now is that I'm a "Nice Guy" and would never be able to sleep again if I sold this thing with these issues... full disclosure would be a must. Unless it was to some Toyota or BMW guy who just wanted it as a spare/upsized head unit, or someone doing a custom build. My rotrex head unit itself is fine, its the mounting that is fail.

When I bought my kit from 949 in April, I asked and was told there were about 200 of these things on the road. I can't quite see there being 100 some odd people out there with belt issues, there would be far more OMGWTFROTREXBBQ threads out there than I've seen. Also... CoralDoc, Trackdayhooky and Falcon are all running no ps/ac, running race kits with custom spec blowers. IIRC C30-94 for Falcon and a C38-94 monstrosity for TDH, not sure what the 'Doc is running, might be a C15-60 on a 1.8? I honestly don't remember. I stopped reading because it made me even more grumpy with myself for feeling like a whiny little beotch.

I'm pretty sure you don't want my MS2, its a DIYPNP for a 99/00, not sure it would work on your 94.

As for the COPs, just DIY mang! It was super easy. Even I was able to figure it out! I got a set of connectors from Ballenger Motorsport for $8.99/ea w/pigtails, and later got a full set of COPs and connectors from a forum member on here for around $100. I snagged a spare eBay 90919-02244 COP for $15 to keep in the trunk. Wiring instructions are in the mega COP thread. Just did 700+ miles this holiday season NA (no rotrex) w/COPs, works fine with my stock ECU and no dwell reduction. Super easy and a damn sight cheaper than a replacement 99/00 failboat stock coil.

I came very close to buying a 6 speed and a 3.63 (or whatever ratio it was) torsen several months ago, but seeing as my car was undriveable, it didn't make much sense at the time

Don't be a wus, Amsoil or Redline in that 6 speed. It's really not that expensive to run something decent.

tankrust

I figured I would chime in here since my friend and I installed a Kraftwerks Rotrex Stage 1 kit on his 2001 Miata over a year ago. He has done multiple open track days and a couple of autocrosses, as well as street driving it with no issues.

We took our time during the install, making sure everything lined up between the pulleys. His kit came with the 4 rib pulley on the Rotrex that has the higher ridges on the front and back side. He is using the original Gates Blue belt, and the car has power steering and A/C. The S/C belt chirps for the first couple of minutes after startup, but after things get warmed up it is quiet. We get the same high pitched whistle at idle from the intake filter everyone else seems to.

About 6 months ago I removed the idler puller and the autotensioner pulley to repack the bearings with high temp grease, since I had seen where others had some issues with them self destructing. At that time I noticed a little bit of wear on the rear edge of the belt, but nothing serious enough to consider replacing it at that point.

We were waiting anxiously for the Stage 2 upgrade but now it seems it will never happen. My friend is undecided at this point whether to go DIY Stage 2 or sell his car and move to a different track car altogether.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

Thanks Tank, make me feel better mine doesn't work Any chance you have pics of pulley and idler setup?

fwMiata

:devils advocate:

OP, how is the PAS pump? I had the pump on my NA (not sc) crap out and the shaft walked out (or in, cant remember) slightly, causing it to eat one rib off the belt, but only when I drove it, it looked to run true at idle, but when I put a long flat bar across the pulleys i could see it was slightly off. the SC and where it is located might make it more pronounced.

:/Devils advocate:

tankrust

EO2K- Sorry, I don't have access to any pics right now. I am currently in Afghanistan. I am heading home in 2 weeks and I will post some pics when I return.

The idler pulley is pretty fussy due to the way the adjuster rod engages the pulley carrier. It took some work to get the idler pulley aligned parallel with the S/C bracket. When the idler pulley bolt is tightened, it tends to put the idler pulley at an angle if you aren't careful. What ended up being the trick for us is tightening the idler pulley down while keeping the tension off the belt with a long ratchet on the auto tensioner. I'm not saying this is your issue, but it is one part of the kit that I thought could have been done better.

Also, the auto-tensioner does not operate very smoothly. It tends to jump from one tightness to another instead of continuously adjusting. I pulled it apart and lubed it, but it didn't make much difference. It doesn't seem to cause any problems as it is. When you rev the motor it takes up the slack as it should.

matthewdesigns

iTrader: (8)

First off, this is the most humble fail thread I've ever seen.

I put my entire setup together (from ecu to exhaust) for about $1500, excluding the turbo. I cheaped out on the ex mani/dp but even new ARTech stuff would only have pushed me to about $2K. You already have a huge pile of applicable parts as mentioned a few posts above, and if what you list in the above quote is really all you need, then yes $2500 will get you a rock solid setup, with everything new. You could put something reliable for the street together for half of that if you bought used stuff.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

Thanks for playing, and I appreciate the input! This had actually occurred to me, but on the crank. I eventually remembered the trust bearing issues in the 99's and started freaking out about clearances in my '00 engine. My dial indicator says everything was within spec. I've pulled on the PS pulley by hand, but not really payed attention. I'll get out the indicator some time this week and check it for realz.

I think its worth noting that I've done about 700 miles naturally aspirated since Dec 20th and I'm seeing no odd belt issues.

Thank you for your service, and I look forward to the pics, as this will indicate you are back home!
I agree, the fixed idler is a bastard to work with. I ran into the same problem with the idler wanting to sit at an angle if there is too much tension on the belt. My auto-tensioner seems to operate in the same manner that you describe, so that makes me feel a little better.

/bow
I'm a supercharger guy on a turbo site. One learns to get humble real quick around here.

I know, this is what's killing me. Used turbo stuff is pretty common, and there are lots of good parts out there waiting to be scooped up. For some reason I kept looking for a kit rather than trying a DIY, and I was looking for ease of install. Like I say, I'm lazy. Hindsight being what it is, I could have saved TONS of time and aggravation (not to mention $$$) by going DIY turbo. Hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes.

The guys from Skunk2 sent me a KraftWerks RMA number this afternoon, along with, surprisingly enough, a prepaid FedEx mailing label. Seems like progress, we'll see how it goes.

MartinezA92

iTrader: (4)

Turbo it, put a quiet exhaust on it so you don't attract attention (paint intercooler black, other stealth mods etc.), and make friends with a local CA smog tech (I'm probably not local enough to help you out).

I'm going to knock on every type of wood available here, if you don't drive like a douche you will probably be left alone regardless of your flavor of forced induction.

jeff_man

iTrader: (7)

tl;dr

rotrex < twinscrew

You will never get a power band as hot as this for a centripetal, and i thank the miata gods I found that out before i swapped from twin to rotrex

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

Yep, that's the plan! Quiet exhaust, recirculating diverter, black IC, and anything else I can get away with. The receding hair line and the grey in the goatee makes me look less like a douche, even when I drive like one. I need some limo black tint for the hardtop and I need to ditch my A pillar gauge pod. I'm open to other tips too You might be surprised how local I am, we've spoken on NCR

While everything you said is true, I CAN NOT STAND that PD blower wail so rotrex > twinscrew for me. The MP45/62 is just too damn loud. I'm following up on some used turbo stuff right now, we'll see how that goes.

EO2K

iTrader: (37)

I dropped my RMA package in the mail on the morning of the 4th, gotta love how it took FedEx 24 hours to get the box in the system and then 4 days to move it 350 miles to SoCal. I have no clue how these people are putting the USPS out of business

Probably installing the MS2 this weekend so I can get some time in tuning.